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Weebly
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Hello Time Attackers!

As most of you are probably aware, Brooke & Ian will have their hands full (literally) this month. I’ve volunteered to help on the administrative side of things for Time Attack.

Same as last year, we need to class our cars using the CASC Ontario Time Attack (OTA) website http://ccdb.casc.on.ca/

If you’re not familiar with the process, Ian has put together a video tutorial that will guide you through the process The beginners guide to Time Attack - Time Attack Discussions - Winnipeg Sports Car Club (wscc.mb.ca).

In addition, Ian & Brooke have provided a link to just about everything you need to know about Time Attack in their infamous “Almighty List”. The Almighty list of Time Attack links for 2020 - Time Attack Discussions - Winnipeg Sports Car Club (wscc.mb.ca)

Don’t be afraid to get in touch with me at secretary@wscc.mb.ca if you have any non-technical questions. If you need to know whether adding another piston to your transmission will put you into a higher class, I’m probably not your guy.

Once you have your car classed (mandatory requirement) you can send me a PDF copy of your Car Classification and we will keep it on file. Considering COVID-19 will be with us for most of the season, we don’t want to exchange paper copies this year.

If you have questions or comments of a general nature that would be helpful to others, please post here. Otherwise, please direct information to me at secretary@wscc.mb.ca   Thanks,

Brian (aka Weebly)

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I have a pretty good understanding of the Time Attack Classification, and I am also willing to help anybody to get their car in the right class.

Two things to remember: 1) If you don't tell me all the modifications you have done, I can't help you to classify properrly. That means I show you your class based on the info I have...there is no guarantee that it is right if you give me the wrong information to start with!  2) I have zero tolerance for people trying to cheat by intentionally giving wrong information about their car. We are at a clubsport level, and you won't make it into the big league by lying to the people you are racing against on the weekend. This means I will not help you to cheat!

Anybody who has questions regarding the classification of their car, feel free to contact me.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just a reminder to everyone when you’re classing your car.  In order to class your car you’ll need to go to http://ccdb.casc.on.ca/ and sign up for an account. When registering, please use the format “name.WSCC” for your username (e.g. John Smith.WSCC). Using that format allows us to identify our club members apart from the Ontario Time Attack (OTA) racers. From there just follow the instructions to get a class for your car.

For a video tutorial check out the “Beginner’s Guide to Time Attack”, posted on the Forums, under “Time Attack Discussions”. 

Also, please don’t’ forget download a PDF copy and forward to secretary@wscc.mb.ca  I don’t know why Ian said it would be difficult to get people to send in a copy.  Heck, it’s only May and I’ve already received one classing form.

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Hi everyone,

I`d like to participate in TimeAttack this season on my bone stock 2012 bmw 135i. Could you advise what class should I qualify/classify, please?

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Max 

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Hey everyone,

I'm having trouble classing my car also as it's not listed in the Base car list http://ccdb.casc.on.ca/BaseCarList.aspx

I have a 2019 Ford Mustang ecoboost base model (4cyl turbo), with an aftermarket rear sway bar and 340 treadwear tires (Firestone Firehawk Indy 500)

Vehicle weight is 3542lbs

Power: 310HP

Torque: 350lb-ft

The only 4cyl Mustangs they have in their list are the '88 to '93 LX models but my power to weight is much higher than them. Just based on my lb/hp it looks like I would be in GT3? I emailed CASC about getting my car added but haven't received a reply yet.

Thanks!

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2 hours ago, Rob said:

Hey everyone,

I'm having trouble classing my car also as it's not listed in the Base car list http://ccdb.casc.on.ca/BaseCarList.aspx

I have a 2019 Ford Mustang ecoboost base model (4cyl turbo), with an aftermarket rear sway bar and 340 treadwear tires (Firestone Firehawk Indy 500)

Vehicle weight is 3542lbs

Power: 310HP

Torque: 350lb-ft

The only 4cyl Mustangs they have in their list are the '88 to '93 LX models but my power to weight is much higher than them. Just based on my lb/hp it looks like I would be in GT3? I emailed CASC about getting my car added but haven't received a reply yet.

Thanks!

You will pretty much have to wait for their answer, because the classing is not just based on power-to-weight ratio alone; there are other factors such as suspension type etc. involved. I know from personal experience that it can take a long time for them to answer...as a matter of fact, one of my inquiries has been completely ignored after  they initially started to look into it.

The regulations stipulate that any car that can't be classified needs to be placed into Mod1, the highest class. Now, I think most people would agree that this is not the class you should be in, and if everybody agrees, we could let you run in a lower class. However, for safety's sake, that lower class should be at least one, if not two higher than what you think the car should be in. Not only because the aforementioned reservations regarding the various contributing factors to the classing, but also because most people forget some modifications, or do not know that their modifications change their classing. The penalty for classing yourself too low vastly exceeds the handicap of having classed yourself too high. And ignorance won't protect you from punishment....

Hopefully they will come back to you soon, and we have a good starting point to evaluate your car. If they have not reponded by the first competition weekend, we will have our TA Director evaluate your scenario and see whether we can get you into a lower than the default Mod1 class.

Edited by donrolandofurioso
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Unfortunately it looks like I'll have plenty of time to wait for their reply before the first event! Good to know that I can race even if I can't class my car properly beforehand. Not worried about being competitive it being my first year so running a few classes higher is no problem. Thanks

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20 hours ago, Rob said:

Hey everyone,

I'm having trouble classing my car also as it's not listed in the Base car list http://ccdb.casc.on.ca/BaseCarList.aspx

I have a 2019 Ford Mustang ecoboost base model (4cyl turbo), with an aftermarket rear sway bar and 340 treadwear tires (Firestone Firehawk Indy 500)

Vehicle weight is 3542lbs

Power: 310HP

Torque: 350lb-ft

The only 4cyl Mustangs they have in their list are the '88 to '93 LX models but my power to weight is much higher than them. Just based on my lb/hp it looks like I would be in GT3? I emailed CASC about getting my car added but haven't received a reply yet.

Thanks!

Hey Rob:

 

Is your mustang equipped with the handling/performance package?

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  • 1 month later...

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that you need to class your car for 2021 season (coming very soon).

Same as last year, we need to class our cars using the CASC Ontario Time Attack (OTA) website http://ccdb.casc.on.ca/

There's a large number of people who have registered for Aug 14-15 but have not submitted their classing form yet.

Thanks to all those who have already submitted their forms to me at secretary@wscc.mb.ca 

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Still trying to get everyone to submit their class and PIP schedule for Time Attack.  I think some of you are completing the process but forgetting to download the PDF version of the schedule and submit to "secretary@wscc.mb.ca".  

I've volunteered to help Ian this year and gather all the classing forms and PIP schedules.  If you need help in how to class your car and determine PIP's, don't hesitate to contact  @donrolandofurioso @Ianfromduff. These guys have a ton of experience and can help you figure out how many PIP's are assessed for each modification on your car.

If you need help navigating the CASC Ontario Time Attack (OTA) website, please contact me at "secretary@wscc.mb.ca" and I'll do my best to help.

If you prefer to bypass the classing requirement, then you will be classed as MOD 3 with 1.0 Pax factor. Ouch!

Here's hoping that we can get the majority of entrants properly classed for next weekend's Time Attack event.  Thanks,

Brian

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On 5/25/2021 at 11:44 AM, Weebly said:

Just a reminder to everyone when you’re classing your car.  In order to class your car you’ll need to go to http://ccdb.casc.on.ca/ and sign up for an account. When registering, please use the format “name.WSCC” for your username (e.g. John Smith.WSCC). Using that format allows us to identify our club members apart from the Ontario Time Attack (OTA) racers. From there just follow the instructions to get a class for your car.

For a video tutorial check out the “Beginner’s Guide to Time Attack”, posted on the Forums, under “Time Attack Discussions”. 

Also, please don’t’ forget download a PDF copy and forward to secretary@wscc.mb.ca  I don’t know why Ian said it would be difficult to get people to send in a copy.  Heck, it’s only May and I’ve already received one classing form.

Great Event #1 weekend, aside from the sunburn, and I just wanted to thank everyone who submitted their classing forms.  Using your smartphone to class your car while you're at the track is not the easiest way of doing this as I can attest to by trying to assist several people in this endeavour.  It becomes more onerous if you forget the URL and try and get to the classing database using the Ontario Time Attack home page.  It's there, but just difficult to find.

I would suggest finding some spare time and going through the following steps:

1. Watch the excellent tutorial provided by Ian. The beginners guide to Time Attack - Time Attack Discussions - Winnipeg Sports Car Club (wscc.mb.ca).

2. Use the URL http://ccdb.casc.on.ca to directly access OTA the classing database

3. Create an account, if a new member.

4. Class your car per instructions given in the video tutorial. You did watch the video, right?

5. Once you've classed your car click on "Save but do not submit to CCC"

6. Finally, the last step. Click on the lower right corner of the screen to download a copy of your file to your computer. Then, simply forward to "secretary@wscc.mb.ca"

I'd be remiss in not thanking @donrolandofurioso for his expertise in helping people with the technical side of classing their cars.  Hope to see you all at our next event!

Brian

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  • 1 month later...
28 minutes ago, beemaz said:

Hello need help classing my 2011 civic si coupe, coilovers, rear swaybar, 200tw tires, header, hondata, sri intake. Please and thanks

 

@beemaz: Before anyone gets involved in classing your car, have you gone to the top to this post and clicked on the link to OTA?  If you want to class your car, you need to create an account with OTA.

I can assist with the PIP schedule but we start with your account name and pick your car from the database.  Then we can add the PIP's per you description of the modifications. Don't hesitate to send my a PM or contact me at "secretary@wscc.mb.ca" and we can discuss the details.  Thanks!

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  • 1 month later...

Hey everyone. As I'm likely to spend too much time over the winter on Amazon, Tire Rack, Monkeywrench racing etc., I thought I'd pose a general question for anyone who want's to jump in:

In general, what's the most PAX friendly mods out there? In other words, what's the best bang for your buck mods, without incurring PAX penalties?

So far as I can tell, the following mods would not incur any PIPS penalties, but please tell me if I'm wrong: lighter wheels, 250tw tires, lighter flywheel, a cold air intake (but leave the manifold alone), and any exhaust mods downstream of the catalytic converter.  

And what about brakes? I didn't see anything about upgraded brakes on the PIPs schedule, but that didn't seem right. Did I miss something?

Anyway, thanks guys. Already looking forward to next year. 

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Good to hear from you Michael - we need something to talk about during the winter months. You've asked some good questions and I'll answer what I can, and then defer to our resident experts for the more technical questions.

First, I would start with getting your car classed and see how much breathing room (range of 5 points/class) you have and see how many PIP's you can take before breaking over into the next class. The information on how to class your car on the OTA website is contained within this thread.

Tires can be a contentious issue because we have three rulesets governing tires, namely

  • Canadian National Solosport Regulations (CNSR) (April 2020)
  • OTA Regulations 2021
  • WSCC Supplementary Regulations Version 2.2, 24 Sep 2021

If you're running 250 UTGW tires, you qualify for -5.0 PIP's per OTA Modification 5.1 A2.1.  However, you wont' find this same rule in CNSR. Our sanctioning body, WCMA, does not officially recognize the OTA regulations but instead uses CNSR regulations.  Our Supplementary Regulations 5.2.2 Tires clarifies and simplifies tire exemptions by stating  that you must use street legal tires with a UTGW of 180 or higher to not incur any penalties.  However, it does not go on to say that 250+ tires qualify for -5.0 PIP's.  I think that's assumed and is likely an oversight.  I will check in with our Time Attack Director to get this confirmed.

That's all I can provide for now, but we will keep this post alive and get you the answers you're looking for. In the meantime, is there any chance you'll be entering the last Dirt-X of the season?  If so, I'm asking for a co-drive!  The last Dirt-X events I worked were so much fun that I'm trying to beg, borrow, or steal a ride at our last event.

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22 hours ago, Michael W said:

And what about brakes? I didn't see anything about upgraded brakes on the PIPs schedule, but that didn't seem right. Did I miss something?

Interestingly enough, that's about the only mod that car doesn't really need! The brakes are relatively massive compared to the size of the car. 

Sarah and I used to run back-to-back TA sessions and never had any brake fade with a good set of pads, even with the S/C.

If you decide to install any of the go-fast goodies you listed as PIP freebies, let me know. As we discussed, I have some good test data and might just have some leftovers!

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How does weight reduction count?  If you're measuring the driver's weight, can you essentially remove that much weight for "free"?

So does that let you use a lighter battery and remove rear seats as long as it's less than 10% of the weight of your car for free?

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Brian is right in the sense that our WSCC Suplementary Regulations never adressed tires over 250 UTQG; however, a general rule in racing is "If it is not allowed, it is forbidden", meaning competitors have defaulted to the OTA rule that anything over 250 UTQG will give you the advantage of being classed in the next lower class. 

Brakes upgrades are free as they improve the safety of the vehicle.

Removal of the seat, and changing the battery and/or its location are not free! Both of them come with PIPs, see below:

17 Non-authorized battery(ies) or change in location(s); any or all.

 

9 Non-authorized rear seat modification.

 

Any modifications that you do also are subject to weight penalty PIPs as soon as you cross the threshold of 10%.

The driver's weight is included into the classing of the car up to a certain amount (don't quote me right now, but I believe it is 160lbs). That means you enter your weight into the classing page of the OTA, and the page will automatically adjust your class to the driver weight - you don't get to manipulate the vehicle weight based on your own weight.

Generally speaking, the OTA classing page works really well. As long as you honestly enter all the specs, you will get your class and it will be very competitive. 

Having said that, it seems that there is no 2003 Toyota Corolla XRS listed in the OTA Base Car List. It is your responsibility to contact OTA and get your car classified. OTA will decide what will be your base class (likely T2), and your actual classification is centered around this base line. Do this as soon as possible; OTA often takes a few weeks to respond to your request.

Contact me if you have any questions.

Edited by donrolandofurioso
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7 hours ago, Matter said:

How does weight reduction count?  If you're measuring the driver's weight, can you essentially remove that much weight for "free"?

So does that let you use a lighter battery and remove rear seats as long as it's less than 10% of the weight of your car for free?

The ota classing website actually uses the driver's weight and adds it to the car weight to adjust for classing.

 

However, a lightweight battery is listed as it's own mod so points must be taken with it. 

 

Also, you have to be careful with weight reduction as there are 2 ways of taking points for it. The first way is taking points for every specific item taken out of the car. This is good if your only removing a couple of things or don't have access to scales.

 

The 2nd way is to submit an official race weight of  the car. This bypasses the taking points for each item removed or modified and just goes by the overall weight of the car. An important thing to note here is that the weight submitted is the absolute minimum the car is aloud to weigh. So make sure it's on an empty tank of gas.

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