Runaway Lexus kills 4

[Vapour Trails]

I have the solution!They could use a device called a "cable" to control the device which lets the air into the engine! So that when the driver lets off the accelerator' date=' the engine is starved of air, and ceases to rev any higher! It would be a much simpler system than all these stupid computers, and would likely be far more reliable!Man, I'm so full of awesome ideas.Oh wait...[/quote']While we're at it we should go back to carbs.The odds of a mechanical linkage becoming snagged is much higher than a failure of a drive-by-wire system.

[Fast_Toys]

I think drivers have become too dependent on technology and no longer understand what to do when problems arise. The real solution would be mandatory driver education that explains what to do in emergency situations.

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

The odds of a mechanical linkage becoming snagged is much higher than a failure of a drive-by-wire system.

Bullshit.Pretty much every car, from every manufacturer from like, 2002 and prior (minus some exotics maybe) are cable-operated throttle butterfly. That's hundreds of millions, probably billions of cars, going back over the years.How many stories have we heard in the media about stuck open throttles where the cable was to blame? How many million+ vehicle recalls have we heard about cable throttles? Likely very few, and will remain far fewer than servo throttles as they gain popularity in modern cars.The fact of the matter remains, that cable throttle are simple and reliable, and have been for decades.

[VSM_SiR]

Bullshit.Pretty much every car' date=' from every manufacturer from like, 2002 and prior (minus some exotics maybe) are cable-operated throttle butterfly. That's hundreds of millions, probably billions of cars, going back over the years.How many stories have we heard in the media about stuck open throttles where the cable was to blame? How many million+ vehicle recalls have we heard about cable throttles? Likely very few, and will remain far fewer than servo throttles as they gain popularity in modern cars.The fact of the matter remains, that cable throttle are simple and reliable, and have been for decades.[/quote']Umm I dont know about that bud, i've personally had multiple cables stick on me, and I don't know anybody who's ever had a problem with drive-by-wire. We probably dont hear about it because "Man hits snow bank because throttle cable iced up" or "Toyota recalls 2.1 million 1983 camrys because cable seizes over time" aren't exactly news worthy headlines

[Corey]

Ahh, but it's a lot harder (near impossible) to meet current emissions standards with people jerking the throttle open and closed so often. An electronic system lets the computer filter out the driver's harsh inputs to ensure a clean burn.Real-world example: A 2000 Ford Focus throttle body has an idle bypass air control valve that's about 1/4 the diameter of the throttle plate. It could maintain 4000+ rpm (while the cable-actuated throttle was shut) to cleanly burn off unburnt fuel in the intake manifold. I documented longer 100 km/hr to zero stopping distances with the car in gear than with the clutch depressed. Electronic throttles let this happen more transparently.E-throttles are here to stay. But driving feel will get better as experience grows and people complain about delays. Get in a recent S2000 and try to see if you can feel the stereotypical e-throttle delay.

[conebasher]

I documented longer 100 km/hr to zero stopping distances with the car in gear than with the clutch depressed.

cough *nerd* cough-lol

[Corey]

LOL! A fellow nerd/buddy had a G-Tech Pro so we played. I think it took around 10' further to stop from 100 km/hr in 2nd gear vs. neutral. Tested multiple times with stock/crappy street tires.Sorry, no video.

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

What should you do if your accelerator pedal sticks!?http://www.toyota.com/recall/videos/stoppingprocedure.htmlSTEP ON THE BRAKE AND PUT IT INTO NEUTRAL!Wow.. I'm glad I watched that video.

[piston_honda]

I think it leans towards "witch hunt" when they have "witnesses" like Rhonda Smith testify about her possessed Lexus. Apparently she put the car in neutral, reverse, pressed the brake, etc. and nothing worked until the hand of god saved her. Not sure how the auto tranny works in this model, but wouldn't something have broken if it was put into reverse while going 90 mph forward? Of course the car was in good mechanical condition post incident and the car was okay to be sold to another family who put on 27,000 miles of trouble free operation. That's why I think this is getting goofy. The congressmen consider her a "good" witness. I think if they actually cared and set the gov't engineers and technicians loose on Toyota rather than the politicians and lawyers, I would take this all more seriously.I don't think Toyota is totally innocent, but I think this is getting out of control and blown way out of proportion. Despite what has happened in the past with other manufacturers, I would have hoped we as a society would make some progress but I was mistaken.

Where is the line drawn between "thorough investigation" and "witch hunt"? Is it any different than the Ford/Firestone issue with the Explorer even though underinflated tires were perhaps the biggest culprit or the GM pickup saddle tank situation where 60 Minutes IIRC had to wire in explosives to get the effect they were looking for? (edited)

[yofa]

yeah, there's gonna be a lot of b.s. stories to dig through, many due to driver errors trying to dump off blame on toyota. but toyota's challenge will be to cut through the mess and get to the bottom of the legitimate issues, while staying politically correct to avoid further angering their customers and the american government.my furniture-making friend was telling me of this conspiracy theory where the american auto manufacturers were using their onstar satellites to pin toyota throttles all around the states, to undermine consumer confidence in them and drive them back to the american dealerships. that's the outrageousnous of human imagination, and the scope of technical ignorance!toyoda chose a crappy time to take over the reigns.

[Miss_Behavin]

my furniture-making friend was telling me of this conspiracy theory where the american auto manufacturers were using their onstar satellites to pin toyota throttles all around the states' date=' to undermine consumer confidence in them and drive them back to the american dealerships. that's the outrageousnous of human imagination, and the scope of technical ignorance!.[/quote']He forgot to mention that the aliens hidden in the Arizona/Nevada desert used brain waves to infiltrate the minds of drivers and scramble their thoughts on what to do!

[Hard Dog]

GM, Ford and Chrysler are fortunate that their products from the mid-70's were not put under this type of microscope.:eek:

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

"General Motors (GM) is recalling 1.3 million small cars in North America because of a power steering problem that has been linked to 14 crashes."http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8544989.stmGM can shut up now with their worthless boasting.But wait!"GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz told the BBC at the Geneva Motor show: "This is a case where, yes, we would blame a partially Toyota-owned supplier."Oh nevermind... Toyota is to blame for this. Better take any opportunity possible to mention them in a negative light...PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTWhat a stupid company GM is. The U.S. gov should have buried them.

[Vapour Trails]

Bullshit.Pretty much every car' date=' from every manufacturer from like, 2002 and prior (minus some exotics maybe) are cable-operated throttle butterfly. That's hundreds of millions, probably billions of cars, going back over the years.How many stories have we heard in the media about stuck open throttles where the cable was to blame? How many million+ vehicle recalls have we heard about cable throttles? Likely very few, and will remain far fewer than servo throttles as they gain popularity in modern cars.The fact of the matter remains, that cable throttle are simple and reliable, and have been for decades.[/quote']My throttle cable snagged in my Ford Probe before. Just because it's not on the front page doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Every fly in a passenger jet? Fly-by-wire is the predominate control method.I personally much prefer the feel of an electronic accelerator and love the fact the sensitivity can be changed.

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

Just because it's not on the front page doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

If you re-read my post, you'll see that I never said that it didn't happen.My point, since it clearly requires clear reiteration, is that if/when servo throttles become as widespread as cable throttles once were, i.e. in the millions to billions of vehicles, we'll probably see A LOT more issues related to them than we ever saw with cables.Comparing aircraft fly-by-wire to cars is complete apples & oranges. Aircraft are meticulously inspected after so many flight hours to ensure trouble-free operation and safety. How many average joe car owners are going to meticulously inspect their throttle system after so many KM or driving hours? Zero.

[Fast_Toys]

I still think it boils down to people not understanding the technology. Most people probably learned if your gas pedal stuck, you reach down and try to unstick it (ie with a cable that would work). With electronic throttle, driver aids, push button start, keyless ignition etc, very people seem to know what to do when there is an emergency. As some people have quoted "it's like the car was posessed". They say that because they don't know what is going on and only assume that some computer screwed up and took control of the car.I believe it was Car & Driver that did a recent test where they tried to see if they could overwhelm the brakes on a vehicle with the gas pedal planted to the floor. In every case, they were able to easily stop the car. The only exception was a very powerful supercharged saleen mustang (I believe) when they started from a very high speed. The car still stopped but it took a long time. Of course the general population has no idea what to do and overheat the brakes, use up the vacuum reserve, don't know how to shift to neutral or turn off the car when there is an emergency. If people were taught how to use the technology properly, a lot of accidents could be avoided.

[Hard Dog]

Of course the general population has no idea what to do and overheat the brakes' date=' use up the vacuum reserve, don't know how to shift to neutral or turn off the car when there is an emergency. If people were taught how to use the technology properly, a lot of accidents could be avoided.[/quote']There would be a huge uproar if NA drivers had to go through the same licensing requirements as places like Germany. There's a good reason why the vast majority of these "possessed" cars are in the US and Canada. I seem to recall a survey where a shocking number of US drivers didn't know what the "N" stood for on their PRNDL indicator.

[Corey]

I seem to recall a survey where a shocking number of US drivers didn't know what the "N" stood for on their PRNDL indicator.

Nope' date=' [b']Not going anywhere!

[Jeff]

Here's a neat idea: Mechanical kill-switch"You mean something that needs to be in a certain position for the engine to run because it connects two wires to deliver electricity to the engine computer?"Why yes, that's exactly what I mean."Hey, that's a great idea! It could even come with a removable toggle tool that only fits one car!"Now you're catching on! I know, it's brilliant.

[Vapour Trails]

My point' date=' since it clearly requires clear reiteration, is that if/when servo throttles become as widespread as cable throttles once were, i.e. in the millions to billions of vehicles, we'll probably see A LOT more issues related to them than we ever saw with cables.[/quote']That's pure speculation of an automotive neo-luddite.

Comparing aircraft fly-by-wire to cars is complete apples & oranges. Aircraft are meticulously inspected after so many flight hours to ensure trouble-free operation and safety. How many average joe car owners are going to meticulously inspect their throttle system after so many KM or driving hours? Zero.

The point was the systems are trusted when you are 35,000 feet above the earth, so why shouldn't they be trusted in your car? Aircraft inspection frequencies have to do with the consquences of failure far more than the chance of failure. If your e-throttle sticks and you have your wits about you, it shoud be over in an instant. Moreover, electronic throttles allow for more intelligent operation of the engine versus mechanical linkages. In certain brands the throttle acts a torque pedal, where the demand for power can be met by changing various parameters such as ignition timing, fueling and cam timing in addition to simply opening the throttle body. In these systems, the depression of the gas pedal is not directly proportional to opening of the throttle body.

[90RioGS]

WTF.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_runaway_priusSeriously? Even the police didn't think to tell him to put it into neutral? And why was it only when the car was down to 50mph that he thought to turn the engine off? I think they need to add an IQ test to the driving exams...EDIT: Also, who knew a Prius could do 94mph? haha

[Hard Dog]

WTF.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_runaway_prius Seriously? Even the police didn't think to tell him to put it into neutral? And why was it only when the car was down to 50mph that he thought to turn the engine off? I think they need to add an IQ test to the driving exams... EDIT: Also' date=' who knew a Prius could do 94mph? haha[/quote'] I was wondering the same thing. In the CNN video, the driver says something about "trying the brakes", but not trying too hard to stop because "I wasn't protected from behind". Darwin is once again making the roads safer, one bad driver at a time.

[Hard Dog]

EDIT: Also' date=' who knew a Prius could do 94mph? haha[/quote']I'm guessing riding the brakes for 40 miles juiced up that hybrid to about 500HP!!!

[Corey]

If that same guy was in an old truck with a cable throttle it wouldn't have been newsworthy. Silly sensationalist media.In the comments to that article someone mentions to NEVER turn off the ignition because it might lock your steering. *sigh* There's so much misinformation floating around. Mix that with a bunch of people that would rather be victims than acknowledge they don't know everything and you have the current situation.

[Hard Dog]

You have to wonder how many of these new incidents are staged. I mean, obviously your Toyota has zero re-sale value so why not go for a fun race down the freeway, miraculously find a way to stop your "runaway" Prius and have Toyota take it off your hands and pay you for your "suffering", to boot. It's the American way. "Honest Officer, my buddy and me were carefully driving our daddys' Lexuses, side by side, when suddenly both throttles stuck wide open!":D

[MRS Joe]

You have to wonder how many of these new incidents are staged. I mean' date=' obviously your Toyota has zero re-sale value so why not go for a fun race down the freeway, miraculously find a way to stop your "runaway" Prius and have Toyota take it off your hands and pay you for your "suffering", to boot. It's the American way. "Honest Officer, my buddy and me were carefully driving our daddys' Lexuses, side by side, when suddenly both throttles stuck wide open!":D[/quote']I think 40% are staged with the other 60% being sheer stupidity. With the money that will be coming out of the toyota lawsuit to follow this, im sure many people will be getting on the bandwagon for the cash. Why is every example of runaway toyota's only in the US? I haven't seen or heard of a Canadian example. I think its due to our laws relating to lawsuits.....

[piston_honda]

Cha-ching!It's like a veritable feeding frenzy.

[Hard Dog]

If you listen to this interview with the Prius driver, he's an idiot!http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2010/03/10/rowlands.runaway.prius.cnn?hpt=T2 "I couldn't put the car in neutral because I had both hands on the wheel""I was afraid to shut it off because I thought it might lock the steering wheel" Frankly, I'd take my chances with locking the steering wheel and stopping the car, if my other choice was dying at 95mph!:confused: I won't even comment about taking one hand off the wheel to shift it into neutral.:confused:

[piston_honda]

To quote this driver from a Globe and Mail article (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/one-toyota-prius-drivers-harrowing-tale/article1495866/)"Mr. Neibert told Mr. Sikes after the CHP caught up with him to shift to neutral but the driver shook his head no. Mr. Sikes told reporters he didn't go into neutral because he worried the car would flip."The car would flip????

[conebasher]

I think all this stuff is caused by insulating people from all danger and percieved danger. There was a time not so long ago when there no warning labels on everything and stupid behaviour was "rewarded" with injury, loss or pain. But when you take away all potential dangers, that area of the brain seems to go stagnant and when confronted with life or death situations, the insulated modern human freezes instead of acting appropriately. Common sense is not that common any more. Just my opinion based on observation.