1973 Celica ST (considering subframe connectors)

[nopistons]

Love the progress. Your fab work is great!

Joe is right about the supercharger vs turbo. Depending on the displacement of the blower, it is not uncommon for a requirement of 15-20hp just to turn the screws! They do make power down low more readily but turbo technology has changed so much in recent years that a well chosen turbo will net better results over the entire powerband and with little to no lag.

each has their place, some of it comes down to personal preference but ultimately a turbocharger will always win the efficiency race!

[white_cross]

Thanks for the complements guys. Just a thought. I saw this on a cobra mustang at the sturgis mustang rally. They were running compound boost with the supercharger and twin turbos . Could allow it to have down low torque and up top power too.

I got time to plan what route I will take yet. Thanks guys for the advise. I am not very mechanically skilled with motors but everything can be learned.

 

[white_cross]

I did a quick search on google and came across a couple of articles on compound boost. Here is one of them (same kind of Cobra mustang as the one i saw in sturgus): http://www.mustangandfords.com/parts/mmfp-0801-twin-turbo-compound-boost-2003-mustang-cobra/

They said you won't be getting as high hp numbers as just a straight turbo set up but the torque down low and up top was pretty awesome. It also allowed them to run bigger turbos than the motor could normally run. The car was more focused for street use than just top end drag racing hp. 

When I saw that mustang at sturgus I was very impressed with it

[Jim Eh.]

In the case of diesel engines of the sixtys they are referring to a two stroke detroit diesel. In this case it is a scavenger engine that simply would not work without a supercharger rather than just a power adder. Also the supercharger is starting to provide boost even while cranking the engine over during start up. The optional addition of a turbo is key to the increased power on some models. It seems funny that someone would, without really needing to, use a turbo to push air past a restricting section like a supercharger. I think this is the reason they can use over sized turbos. To me it's kinda like installing a 5K psi water pump to push water thru a 1/2" garden hose. A bit of an increased flow but ...

Some late model diesel engines and some newer gas engines like Ford's ecoboost utilize twin turbos to balance the boost range between low end and peak HP sacrificing a little on both. I guess the real trick is balance, like a good marriage, it is a good compromise on both sides that comes with experience.

[MRS Joe]

Compound imo is too costly and pointless. Then spend the money on a variable vane turbo.  

If you size the turbo a touch smaller you will get the earlier spool which will translate to the torque curve you see on BMW's and vw's as of late. 

My corolla hit full boost at 22-2500 rpm, is that not quick enough? 

Lag can be beneficial as it can let the power come on gradually instead of slight switch overwhelming the tires/traction.  I've driven both and especially for the street and autox the gradual boost is nicer as it's easier to drive.  The v8 corolla will be this way when/if I turbo it. 

Talk to an experienced turbo guy when sizing/choosing your turbo and you can beat most stereo types and save several thousand in doing so vs twin charging.

 Jackson auto sport twin charged a Ae92 corolla GTS and spent nearly $10k doing that build and swap. It is not worth while for the outcome. 

 

 

[white_cross]

Been busy making parts in the engine bay:

I also noticed the bumper mounting/tow hook plate was bulging so I cut it out and found what I expected so I repaired the frame rail and built a new plate:

[white_cross]

On December 4, 2016 at 6:06 PM, MRS Joe said:

Devin, your spending useful time bench racing instead of working on the car....  

Don't focus on numbers as much as how the end result will work as a package.  I personally would take that 18r and put injection on it via megasquirt.  Getting rid of the carb simplifies controlling fuel and maximizing output. 

A small t25 off a ca18 Nissan tuned well with good fuelling netted me an estimated 100hp over the stock 4afe (100hp originally).  

That was more then enough to become a handful. 

Hey Joe, What are your thoughts on using a stock wrx 2.0L turbo I think they are a T3 garrett unit vs the T25 you used? I believe my 18rc motor is right around 2.0l in size. 

[MRS Joe]

That's what Chris uses on the lotus. The Miata 1.8 loves it. 

The turbos are small and spool quick.Asa budget solution it'll work fine.  

[white_cross]

3 hours ago, MRS Joe said:

That's what Chris uses on the lotus. The Miata 1.8 loves it. 

The turbos are small and spool quick.Asa budget solution it'll work fine.  

Chris is using the wrx T3 or the Nissan T25? I am guessing the the T3 is larger than the T25? What does the 3 and 25 numbers mean are they the millimeters of the intake flange size like the T25 is 25 mm and the T3 is 30mm? 

[nopistons]

8 hours ago, white_cross said:

I am guessing the the T3 is larger than the T25? What does the 3 and 25 numbers mean are they the millimeters of the intake flange size like the T25 is 25 mm and the T3 is 30mm? 

They are a flange designations and doesn't necessarily mean that the T25/T28 is "smaller" than a T3 beyond the flange bolt pattern. The "AR" of the turbine housing dictates this.

As an example, you can get a GT35 in a T3 flange with an AR of 0.63, and a GT30 in a T25/T28 flange with an AR of 0.72. The turbine housing on the GT35 is smaller and will create a faster spool in on equal engines.

This is one of the turbos I have: GT3076R

GT Garret Turbo
30 Turbine frame size and Inducer diameter
76 Compressor exducer diameter
R Ball bearing

I like this turbo for small displacement engines. Small frame (T25/T28), linear boost increase on lower displacement (~3500rpm to full boost), oil and water cooled, and has internal wastegate option. Chinese ones are new $200USD ea so if you burn one, just toss it and buy another. I have it on my Toyota 1.3L low compression 4EFTE ice racer. Worked very well. I am told, this is an upgrade for WRX/STI folks. One thing to keep in mind though is that a larger turbo at equal boost will make more HP due to larger volume of air and cooler charge. Think of a garden hose and a 2" pipe with equal pressure. One flows a lot more volume at equal pressure and duration. Make sure everything down the line of the turbo is able to take the abuse!

 

But anyway, after all that, for a backyard build, find one, slap it on and let it eat!

[white_cross]

On March 15, 2017 at 7:41 AM, nopistons said:

They are a flange designations and doesn't necessarily mean that the T25/T28 is "smaller" than a T3 beyond the flange bolt pattern. The "AR" of the turbine housing dictates this.

As an example, you can get a GT35 in a T3 flange with an AR of 0.63, and a GT30 in a T25/T28 flange with an AR of 0.72. The turbine housing on the GT35 is smaller and will create a faster spool in on equal engines.

This is one of the turbos I have: GT3076R

GT Garret Turbo
30 Turbine frame size and Inducer diameter
76 Compressor exducer diameter
R Ball bearing

I like this turbo for small displacement engines. Small frame (T25/T28), linear boost increase on lower displacement (~3500rpm to full boost), oil and water cooled, and has internal wastegate option. Chinese ones are new $200USD ea so if you burn one, just toss it and buy another. I have it on my Toyota 1.3L low compression 4EFTE ice racer. Worked very well. I am told, this is an upgrade for WRX/STI folks. One thing to keep in mind though is that a larger turbo at equal boost will make more HP due to larger volume of air and cooler charge. Think of a garden hose and a 2" pipe with equal pressure. One flows a lot more volume at equal pressure and duration. Make sure everything down the line of the turbo is able to take the abuse!

 

But anyway, after all that, for a backyard build, find one, slap it on and let it eat!

That is some use full information. This turbo stuff is new to me so a lot to wrap my head around. choosing the right parts seems most difficult, building it seems more straight forward.

[white_cross]

I am finished the rusty stuff in the engine compartment with the exception of grinding down a few welds. So with that checked off the list I am almost done the structural rust repair and can start on the body work. It is coming along a lot quicker than I had thought. 

The bottom of the strut towers on both sides along the frame rails needed the same repairs here is the passenger side:

I am also excited about this recent purchase. Santos Toy Shop in California provided me with a very clean rear 1/4 panel requiring just a small rust repair on the rear lower corner I hope to get the other side from him as well:

I stripped the paint from the rust prone areas and they are solid, amazing how a 40 plus year old car does with very little salt:

The other side will not have the rocker panel portion of the rocker and i am coming up with an idea to build one. If i cut up an existing replacement rocker panel I can make it work for that portion as this photo demonstrates:

[MRS Joe]

Look up " The.speed.academy" on YouTube.

They are Putting a beams 3sge in your celica and are in Ontario. 

[white_cross]

2 hours ago, MRS Joe said:

Look up " The.speed.academy" on YouTube.

They are Putting a beams 3sge in your celica and are in Ontario. 

I have been following it and has some help full info on the build as well.

[white_cross]

I found an add on the local Kijiji for a 2003 wrx turbo for a good deal. So my daughter and I went for the 2 hour drive to pick it up. We got to the guys house and it was so cool he had like 6-8 nice sports car parked on his drive way (multipul wrx's, an Evo, a Carlos sans celica etc) all in nice condition. I guess he is kind of a car collector. He showed me the turbo it was mint and no shaft pay. He also had the down pipe which I intend on using for the flange and welding a new down pipe to. I asked if he had an intercooler and he took me to his back yard garage which was full of cool car parts he pulled out a front mount evo intercooler. I purchased the parts and took my daughter for supper at Half Moon at 9pm

I know these motors are not worth much but having a spare motor and curiosity of what the motor will make with a turbo on it has got me excited.

My daughter came to hang out with me in the garage the other day:

So the last section of rust repair underneath the car:

And the patch work begins:

At this point I remembered that I had ordered some cut out parts off a 1974 celica from different member on this forum and realized I could probably make something work. So I trimmed up this section of the 1974 floor that I had

Started some real life "photo shop" Took the measurements and cut out the old floor:

Then the 1974 piece got welded in place:

at this point with 1972, 1973, and 1974 celica parts welded into the car I was reminded of this song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWHniL8MyMM

[white_cross]

got the inner rocker mounted up as well and was able to reuse the seat belt mounting bracket. The seat belt fits nicely too:

The middle of the rear floor pan is rusted through and needed to be fabricated due to a leaky window and standing water:

 Time to disassemble for sand blasting the floors:

Test fitting rocker panels they are going to need a little tweaking:

[white_cross]

I have ordered Some of the parts needed for this build from Toy sport and Santos on the 1st gen celica forum.

These were my number one must have parts for this car from Toysport and Santos:

I also got the other 1/4 panel from Santos:

My garage was getting full so my basement has 1/2 a car in it:

I also was able to get ahold of this 1985 mr2 manual steering rack someone replied to my kijiji want add:

Cary from the 1st gen forum made up this really nice steering rack conversion bracket for me. He makes and sells this conversion bracket or the bracket and engine swap cradle. I decided to only do the steering rack. This part is such a time saver:

A little test fit with my mr2 steering rack in the bracket and a comparison of the old steering set up vs the new one:

The weight of the two setups feel very similar.

I ordered a set of 1984 rwd Corolla inner and outer tie rods and they were a bit to long so I had the local machine shop cut 1.5 inches off of each outer tie rod and tap the thread as far as it could be tapped. I could not find a tap big enough locally so I had the work done for me. There was a lot of test fit remove bracket grind transmission to engine brace and repeat. Then my car being 43 years old did not fully line up on all the bolt holes so they were enlarged and one of the mounting tabs had to be cut off and welded 1/16 inch out. I don't blame Cary though as my car has been jumped and landed very hard by a previous owner at some point so things could have shifted a bit. Here is the completed install mocked up it looks very oem sitting in there:

[white_cross]

Santos on the 1st gen forum hooked me up with some fairly workable front fenders. Finally I have a set of fenders that have a bottom not rusted away which allows me to properly fit a set of rocker panels:

Something is missing, I was quite afraid to cut the rear 1/4 panel off but I ended up just going for it:

The rocker from wolf steel had multiple fitment issues the flat visible surface when the door is closed was very round and the celica is flat so hammered and dollied it flat. The next issue was the part where the sill plate mounts was too narrow so I cut off the 90 degree top edge and made a new one and screwed it in place:

Then I welded it up:

I built a new middle rocker support out of thicker 16 gauge steel, a more simple design than oem but it is functional. Also being thicker should make it last longer against rust:

fitment of 1/4 panel, rocker panel, and door. A lot of time in getting these parts to fit any where near right like 16 hours at this point. The passenger side should be a lot quicker now that I know what I am doing. The door is from my 1972 celica which is less rusty and way lighter because it has no crash bar inside it:

1/4 panel fitment in trunk jambs:

Just got my modified steering colum in the mail today from Cary the same guy who built the steering rack bracket to work with my rack and pinion:

picked up a w58 out of a MK2 P type supra and a big brake kit as well as the MK2 KYB struts. Not sure if the MK2 stuff is going to work, but if it does than I have a very affordable big brake set up for the car. I have some ideas on how to get it to all work on the car. I do plan on converting the struts up front to coil overs yet. The rear shocks have 10km on them and are from a Ford Focus, the front struts are MR2. The rotors are 12 inch Land Rover HSE re drilled to fit the supra bolt pattern, with a hub centric ring. The calipers are q45 twin piston units. I also took the MK2 brake booster and master cyl. I took a rough measurement and the booster piston and studs they are in the same location as the oem TA22 booster's. These parts all are out of an old time attack car. He said the brakes worked really good at the track. It was quite a fun adventure taking out all these parts in his back yard hoping the rain would not come and it never did. I managed to fit all the tools and these parts in the back of my FJ which sat a fist lower in the back and was down on power with all the extra weight (most people do a front end leveling kit I just go buy enough car parts to make my leveling kit happen).

[white_cross]

So since photobucket sucks and removed all my pictures I made a video of my progress up to this point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8vndwrC-c4

There is no music so you can choose your own.

[white_cross]

This past summer I picked up a 1991 Miata as a side project from the Celica. The car is an Arizona car so it is free of rust! My friend had a newer white sport Miata. You may have seen it at a few autocross events, and it was a blast to drive with he top down on the hot days. I wanted to get my own but it needed to have pop up lights as my first car had pop up lights (1986 200sx). So I picked up this car for $1500 and put some time into it. 

The same friend who had the Miata we used for racing found me this car on a local classic buy and sell face book page. We took 2 hour road trip north of Brandon to pick it up. 

After a long hot day in the spray booth this car with the top down is the perfect way to get home, though I do find it taking a little longer getting home as it is manditory to go for a rip down the highway with the top down  

Here is the first part of the build in picture video form as I don't want to waist my time with image hosting sites any more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXxfLavx99I&t=351s

The next part of this build will be replacing the core support from previous accident damage so I can get it saftied and licensed for the whole summer. Right now I only can get three month long temporary  permits per year. Which is enough to cover the hottest months so no rush to replace the core support. I have one lined up from a guy in Carmen just waiting on him to get it ready for me.

[white_cross]

Hey guys, its been a while since I posted an update. been pretty busy my family moved to a new place and been working on the new house and setting up the new shop. So this update is about me setting up my new shop. I made it as another youtube video, check it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPZDilVuap4&feature=share
https://imgur.com/a/EEQh2

[white_cross]

This is the next video for my  Celicas restoration

[Jim Eh.]

You must have one of those thick cow hide aprons.

[white_cross]

6 hours ago, Jim Eh. said:

You must have one of those thick cow hide aprons.

I need one of those eh? I got a hoodie full of burn holes at least one

[Jim Eh.]

Don't all blacksmiths wear one?

[white_cross]

20 hours ago, Jim Eh. said:

Don't all blacksmiths wear one?

I just might have to invest in one of those

[TRDTurko]

On 1/19/2018 at 6:21 AM, white_cross said:

Hey guys, its been a while since I posted an update. been pretty busy my family moved to a new place and been working on the new house and setting up the new shop. So this update is about me setting up my new shop. I made it as another youtube video, check it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPZDilVuap4&feature=share
https://imgur.com/a/EEQh2

nice garage! your paint scheme is TRD Turko approved 

[white_cross]

6 hours ago, TRDTurko said:

nice garage! your paint scheme is TRD Turko approved 

Thank You! 

[white_cross]

next video for my build: 

[white_cross]

next video: