1973 Celica ST (considering subframe connectors)

[white_cross]

here are 2 videos. 

The first start up after cutting off the exhaust:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckVlKLc6LNs

Here is the first time I drove it once around the block:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yis7zWl1Cg

Note I did not let the car warm up and the carb is not adjusted. So it is stumbling when I leave the driveway and is burning excess fuel. But it felt so good to drive the car.

Not the car peals out real easy until the throttle bolt lets go

[Jim Eh.]

I think you will have to have the passenger door on before you race it on the 27th.   Nice prgogress.  Nice Novacaine BTW, belong to anybody in the family?

[white_cross]

13 hours ago, krank said:

I think you will have to have the passenger door on before you race it on the 27th.   Nice prgogress.  Nice Novacaine BTW, belong to anybody in the family?

I guess it might need a door for he 27th eh? The Nova is my dads car. We restored this one prior to me being in high school. His original car from way back when my mom and him were dating.

[white_cross]

 

I was able to get all the repair panels welded in. So from fire wall to front seat brace is all welded in place. Just need to do some grinding to smooth out the welds. I don’t know what my thoughts are on the 3M weldthrough primer are yet. It makes really ugly looking welds. The only reason I am using it is to prevent rust on the lap welds etc.

 



 

Time to tackle the passenger rear half inner rocker:

Cut out the inner rocker:

The front section of the rear wheel tub looked like this:

So i cut it out and made a new corner:

Here is the old inner rocker on top of the new cardboard template note the seat belt backing plate with the welded on nuts is also in that mess and rusted in half:

and the inner rocker is made (this piece is going to be added to my list of sheet metal repair panels):

Inner rocker tech screwed in place:

I built a new seat belt backing plate out of some thicker 12 gauge steel:

The seat belt is being test fitted and it fits in place very nicely:

This is under the rear seat. I cut out the floor pan section that sits over the rear control arm mounting (maybe called a torque box?) The floor pan was fairly solid but there was a lot of rust on the torque box inside. I am going to leave this open till I get the whole floor sand blasted. Then I can epoxy prime this aria and close it back up again:

 

[white_cross]

When I was hammering and dollying the rear floor pan straight I was wondering if the car had fallen off some jack stands or been jumped because the frame rails and floor pans and roccker pannels had a bunch of dents in them. Then the other day at the rear of the drive shaft tunnel under the rear seat i found some deeper indents with paint rubbed off that matched the universal joints:

 Maybe I need to change my color choice from turquoise to orange and my autocross number to 01

Here are my first 2 thoughts enjoy the clips:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EySR2jdsHnU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxD0PqVlt5Q

[white_cross]

So a little update. To finance all the big tool purchases needed to build this car, I have been fabricating and selling sheet metal repair parts for this style of car here is the group of parts I have been offering to the 1st gen celica community: 

[white_cross]

A little update, the pass side rear corner has patches made up and tech screwed in place.

[white_cross]

I made one more piece for the rear corner/floor tub. This piece was kind of more complex to make with it's multiple angles and ribbing running over the angles. I also had to line up the ribs with the ribs on the existing floor panel which was a bit of a challenge because none of them are exactly the same width or depth. I had contemplated replacing the whole floor tub but upon closer inspection the rest of the floor tub looks to be quite solid.

[Jim Eh.]

That is an insanely difficult piece to make by hand. Not sure if I would have the patience. Nice work.

 

[white_cross]

54 minutes ago, krank said:

That is an insanely difficult piece to make by hand. Not sure if I would have the patience. Nice work.

 

Thank you for the complement. It felt good to see it take shape.

[TRDTurko]

i found the same when I first started welding with the weld thru primer, but from tweaking settings and practice my welds got better as I went. Also seems like you are building a whole new car lol

[white_cross]

10 hours ago, TRDTurko said:

i found the same when I first started welding with the weld thru primer, but from tweaking settings and practice my welds got better as I went. Also seems like you are building a whole new car lol

I am bringing my dads welder home tomorrow evening from my parents place. So I will see how much welding I can get done tomorrow evening. I was discussing with a guy at work who worked in the body shop. When he replaced panels and used weld through primer he would spot blast the weld sections. I think I will try that this time and see how it works. Just not looking forward to the mess it will make in the garage. 

[white_cross]

I was under the car welding in some more floor/rockers in place and started thinking about sub frame connectors. Being into Mustangs as well I know sub frame connectors is a big improvement on the Mustang. The Celica is very similar platform to The Mustangs I have owned. So last night I did some Google research and came across this link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exeONRNM8zY

The late 1960's mustang in this video is very similar to the underside of my Celica. So I will think on this it should be simple enough to make. The biggest thing to keep in mind is having the car sit level while building sub frame connectors. I like how this design gives ground clearance.

The other designs I looked at are like these:

Maximum Motorsports style of design: https://www.brothersperformance.com/1979-04-mustang-full-length-subframe-connectors-bare-maximum-motorsports.html which sits below the sub frames instead of inside the subframe tubes. These attach to the seat mount bolts so the seat does not flex and twist when you go over the bumps in the road. My design would have an angled bend in the tube because the Celica sub frames do not line up straight with each other.

The other design I came across is on this group B rally Celica: http://www.mat.fi/projects/62 (go to picture #101) I like how this design does not have a gap between the floor and the connector tube (another place for dirt to sit and cause rust). My design would probably have a piece of 12 gauge steel running along the bottom of it so I could use the floor jack on it. 

The other thing I have been considering is stitch welding the seams. 

I do autocross but am not to concerned with which class the car falls into. I am building this car more for cruising but with the capability to to make some really good handling any ways. How ever I decide to finish the floor one frame rail has a rather large hole in it so work has to be done to the sub frames any ways.

[Beau]

Here's a bit of inspiration for your project. This one is for sale out of London, ON. Pretty cool to see one of these in decent condition being sold for a reasonable price. Someone will have fun with it.

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1977-toyota-celica-3/

[white_cross]

13 hours ago, Beau said:

Here's a bit of inspiration for your project. This one is for sale out of London, ON. Pretty cool to see one of these in decent condition being sold for a reasonable price. Someone will have fun with it.

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1977-toyota-celica-3/

Sure is nice thanks for sharing. I enjoyed reading through the comments on that link as well.

[white_cross]

I just finished welding in the right rear section of the cabin with the exception of the weld on nuts on the inside of the inner rocker to hold on the seat belt reel. I was hoping to get new weld on nuts uptown but I am told that these are specific to Toyota and that they could not get a match to the bolts from my Toyota. So I am going to have to clean up my old ones and reuse them.

Here is the progress so far:

I also had to build a section of the rear torque box:

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Next up this weekend is building and replacing the whole frame rail I cut out the rusted out area but decided to just build a whole new piece.

[Bobo]

That looks awesome. 

[white_cross]

On November 8, 2016 at 10:51 PM, Bobo said:

That looks awesome. 

Thanks man. You should stop by soon for a garage hang out time . 

I currently am fabricating the front pass side sub frame rail.  

[Run Away]

Always check out the latest updates on this build. Very inspiring.

 

Are you continuing work on the car over winter (heated shop)?

[white_cross]

12 hours ago, Run Away said:

Always check out the latest updates on this build. Very inspiring.

 

Are you continuing work on the car over winter (heated shop)?

Thank you for your comments on my build. I do plan on working on the car this winter. My goal by late spring is to have the floors and inner rockers and front sections where the fenders bolt up to all welded up with fresh steel. That way when it gets nice out  in spring I can take the car to get the floor sand blasted. I have a heated 24 x 24 garage where I work on this car.

[white_cross]

When I was welding in the floor on the passenger side I noticed there was a small hole in the frame rail. I decided to take a screw driver to the frame rail and I came up with a bunch more soft spots that punched through So I decided to make a new section of frame rail:

[Jim Eh.]

Like I said before, just keep going and fab up a new body entirely  

Have you taken any body measurements lately?

[white_cross]

5 hours ago, Jim Eh. said:

Like I said before, just keep going and fab up a new body entirely  

Have you taken any body measurements lately?

I guess it will only be half Toyota and half Devin when I am done . 

I have taken some precautions for keeping the body straight. I marked the doors to make sure they are lining up the way they did before I cut the car apart. I also have it parked in the most level spot in my garage and used my level on the car to make sure the car was level before I started welding and not twisted . I also am not cutting out and replacing too much at once. 

[Jim Eh.]

Ah, the Devota is born!

[Bobo]

2 hours ago, Jim Eh. said:

Ah, the Devota is born!

Devota. That should find it way on the car. Lol

[white_cross]

 

 

On November 23, 2016 at 9:36 PM, Bobo said:

Devota. That should find it way on the car. Lol

Maybe I can sneak it under a door sill moulding

 

A week ago I was at a good friends place. He has a Miata and is a mechanic for the local Ford dealer. He is also into cars. He started sharing his plans of putting an M62 supercharger on his Miata motor. The M62 or m45 is an Eaton made unit that came stock on the older Pontiac GTP. I believe these superchargers are pretty cheap to buy. It got me thinking about playing with my 18rc. I kind of am growing attached to this 97 hp motor and its simplicity/reliability. I know this motor is not a performance motor and there are better options to make power with. But I have a pair of 18rc motors. So I could potentially mock up the eaton on one motor set up with a carburetor and a modified stock intake manifold. He also was kind of excited about the idea of the eaton on my car and offered to help set it up. As a bonus the shop right by my house has a Dyno facility so I can run the car on the dyno. to get before and after hp numbers. No plans set in stone on my car but more of an experiment to see how well the motor could preform with cheap boost.

I am thinking once the intake manifold is modified it should be a pretty straight forward swap over. Also a header and proper carb will probably be a must for this set up. Probably a light weight fly wheel too. The motor is around 8.5-1 compression so a plus for supercharging. The other option is make it a blow through carb which would allow me to intercool and not modify the intake manifold.

I did some calculations and my mustang mach 1 which makes 340hp (Stock HP is around 305HP) and weighs around 3300 pounds. So power to weight ratio in stock form it was: 10.81 and now it is: 9.70. 

My celica has a power to weight ratio right now (using 2300LBS and 97HP):23.71 So to get a similar power to weight ratio between the two cars I would need to get the celica making about: 237HP

So my question to ponder: is it possible to double the 97 hp in my 18rc? I am not sure where the M62 supercharger is going to place this motor for horsepower. My friend was guessing 160HP with out inter cooled and closer to 200hp inter cooled. I went on google and found a forum talking about turbocharging the 18r and one of the posts talked about a guy in the 1980's who turbocharged his 18r and was running 12 second 1/4 mile passes consistently.

So I took these numbers to a 1/4 mile calculator: https://robrobinette.com/et.htm

The mach 1 stock is supposed to run: 1/4-mile @ MPH: 13.88 seconds @ 101.9 mph (Motor Trend)
The 1/4 mile calculator puts the 305hp mach 1 at: 13.54@ 111 miles per hour
The 1/4 mile calculator puts my 340HP Mach 1 at: 13.6@ 115 miles per hour
(so now I have a rough estimate of how close the 1/4 mile calculator is to the motor trend test)

Then if i put in the celica at 2300lbs and 97 hp i get: 17.59@ 85MPH
If I up the power to 200 I get these results: 13.8@ 109MPH

I know these numbers are just estimates but still fun to play around with.

For me My Mach 1 has just the right amount of power to have a lot of fun. So getting that kind of feel out of the celica would be cool.

[MRS Joe]

Devin, your spending useful time bench racing instead of working on the car....  

Don't focus on numbers as much as how the end result will work as a package.  I personally would take that 18r and put injection on it via megasquirt.  Getting rid of the carb simplifies controlling fuel and maximizing output. 

A small t25 off a ca18 Nissan tuned well with good fuelling netted me an estimated 100hp over the stock 4afe (100hp originally).  

That was more then enough to become a handful. 

[white_cross]

On December 4, 2016 at 6:06 PM, MRS Joe said:

Devin, your spending useful time bench racing instead of working on the car....  

Don't focus on numbers as much as how the end result will work as a package.  I personally would take that 18r and put injection on it via megasquirt.  Getting rid of the carb simplifies controlling fuel and maximizing output. 

A small t25 off a ca18 Nissan tuned well with good fuelling netted me an estimated 100hp over the stock 4afe (100hp originally).  

That was more then enough to become a handful. 

That sounds like a cool plan too. Though don't superchargers make power through out the whole rpm range? Which car did you do the turbo kit to? How much boost were you running to to double your horse power?

[white_cross]

Well the trunk metal work is done! 

I started with the jack storage it was shot so I cut it out and replaced it with one from a 1974 celica. The 1973 and 1974 have no differences:

Old jack storage:

Rust free 1974 jack storage:

Test fitting 1974 storage: 

repair patches patterned off of the 1974:

Jack storage and small patches welded in and cleaned up:

The driver side trunk needed some work too. Either the back axle seal or brakes are leaking. This section was covered in oil or fluid of some sort, does not matter as it will end up all fresh any ways. explains why the rear brakes do not work:

The frame rail had a couple places where it was cut out with a cutting torch to mount a hitch so I fixed those too, no idea why a small car like this had a hitch any ways:

Also started making the fender mounting locations on top of the strut towers and the outer rad support corners as they are pretty rusted. It appears that this 43 year old car has crumple zones built into the front! I had no idea that kind of thing existed in the 70's:

I also shoveled the snow from the shed and pulled out my crusty spare fenders to find the best one for test fitting while installing the fender mounting structure. Each fender has the exact same rust flaws to some extent, so there must be a way to improve on these places:

[MRS Joe]

On 2017-02-01 at 11:58 PM, white_cross said:

That sounds like a cool plan too. Though don't superchargers make power through out the whole rpm range? Which car did you do the turbo kit to? How much boost were you running to to double your horse power?

 

Superchargers require power to make power. There are advantages and disadvantages. I'm partial to a well built turbo setup as once in boost it's more efficient then a supercharger.  The charger is quicker to respond, but you can tune to help alleviate some turbo lag, and if you size the turbo right, you don't encounter much lag at all.

I turbocharged the 4afe. They take to boost very well. 100hp stock and i'd figure it at 180-200hp (crank) once done, as it ended up a mid/high 13 sec car. 

I still have the turbo manifold from it and the injectors are for sale in the forums here, should you want to turbo a 4afe/4age motor. Cheapest and easiest way to get more power. They have plug and play megasquirt for them too (ae86 4age motors) 

Your metal work is unreal and progressing very nicely.  At least one project is moving forward on the forum