Car Classification

[Michael W]

On 11/5/2021 at 9:42 AM, Weebly said:

In the meantime, is there any chance you'll be entering the last Dirt-X of the season?  If so, I'm asking for a co-drive!  The last Dirt-X events I worked were so much fun that I'm trying to beg, borrow, or steal a ride at our last event.

Still mulling that one over. I think I'll at least volunteer and do some fun runs at the end of the day. The fun runs were the most fun part of the day last time, as I could take my son with me. 

[Michael W]

On 11/5/2021 at 1:03 PM, nopistons said:

If you decide to install any of the go-fast goodies you listed as PIP freebies, let me know. As we discussed, I have some good test data and might just have some leftovers!

Thanks Darin. We'll see what the money tree looks like after christmas!

[Michael W]

So, trying to further understand how PAX and PIPs work.

For the sake of argument, lets say I’m currently classed T2. Do I understand correctly that 5 PIPs would bump me to T1? What if I take between 1 and 4? Does that still effect my PAX multiplier even if I remain in the same class?

 

Thanks again.

[donrolandofurioso]

You are right in the sense that 5 PIPs will bump you into the next class, because the spread between classes is 5 PIP.

What happens when you take between one and four PIP? That depends on where your car falls within your class.

Let's assume your car is listed as a T2 car as per CCDB base list. T2 extends from a PI (Performance Index) of 50.0 to 54.9. Therefore, even if your car has a PI of 50.0, an additional 5 PIPs will move you into T1 (55.0 - 59.9 PI).However, if your car is classed at 50.0 PI, you can gain 4.9 PIPs and still stay in T2. The problem, though, is that not all cars in T2 are classed at a PI of 50.0. Some are rated higher, and therefore are already closer to T1. Their allowance for modifications before sliding into T1 is considerably smaller.

For example, the '91 Mustang GT sits at 54.8 as is. Pretty much any modification immediately brings it into T1. How is that fair? Compared to other cars in T2, that Mustang already is considered a rather well developed car from factory on, therefore a "lesser" car in T2 basically has the chance to modify their car to meet the Mustang's performance.

Being a fast driver is one part of Time Attack. The other, just as challenging part of being good at Time Attack is understanding the penalties that come with each modification, and trying to accurately predict whether the increased perfomance of a modification outweighs the PIPs associated with that modification. 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by donrolandofurioso

[beppca]

2 hours ago, Michael W said:

So, trying to further understand how PAX and PIPs work.

For the sake of argument, lets say I’m currently classed T2. Do I understand correctly that 5 PIPs would bump me to T1? What if I take between 1 and 4? Does that still effect my PAX multiplier even if I remain in the same class?

 

Thanks again.

There is only one PAX factor for each class so if you're in T2 it doesn't matter if you're at the low end or top end its the same (T2 54.9 I think?). Therefore its in your best interest to max out your mods while staying in the class you want.

Back to your original post, its definitely exciting to scroll through web sites dreaming about modifying your car! I've wasted days doing it too. However, I've found its very difficult to find the right mods that actually improve your performance and your competitiveness. What you mentioned and others have said: Brakes and tires are the best way to improve both actual times without hurting your classification. After that it becomes very complex. Bottom line with each class you move up to you need to cut off almost 1.5 secs a lap to stay at the same score. Its easy to mod your car with coil overs, sway bars, wings, exhaust etc. but then you need to actually drop several seconds off your lap time to make them worth it. I  wanted to drop the ride height and have some adjustability on my GTI. But coil overs are worth 6 PIPS at the least. So I installed adjustable shocks and incurred 2 PIPs. I don't think they had a noticeable effect over the decent stock shocks. It can get frustrating!

Also although the class system is very detailed, unfortunately not every car starts in the same place from the factory. Basically you can spend a lot of money and incur a lot of PIPS trying to take a basic car and turn it into a competitor but still come up short on the track. You are often better to take your money and put it towards a car that is competitive already in its class. Of course its not easy to just buy a new car. But its easy to slowly blow hundreds or thousands on car mods with the click of a mouse. Search the CASC Database of cars and compare classes and what these cars cost used. There are a few hidden bargain Time Attack cars in the list that are faster than their rivals.

When I felt my T1 GTI was at its limit I considered tuning and every other mod to make it faster. There were a few more seconds in it. But I realized it would never be competitive in the GT2-1 classes so I moved on before I spent a few thousand and ruined a decent car.

Its fun to run and save scenarios on the CASC website to see what is the best combination is before you make any purchases or changes.

Good luck. 

PS others will say just work on the driver and become a faster racer -  but that's not as fun as buying new light weight wheels and tires!

[Weebly]

2 hours ago, donrolandofurioso said:

Being a fast driver is one part of Time Attack. The other, just as challenging part of being good at Time Attack is understanding the penalties that come with each modification, and trying to accurately predict whether the increased performance of a modification outweighs the PIPs associated with that modification. 

That sums it up quite nicely @donrolandofurioso. Thanks for you help in this Car Classification topic and sharing your wealth of knowledge ... much appreciated!

[Weebly]

2 hours ago, beppca said:

PS others will say just work on the driver and become a faster racer -  but that's not as fun as buying new light weight wheels and tires!

I've been working on the "driver" part of it for the last four years and am coming to realize I should've been throwing money into the car and having fun instead!  Like they say, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks". But I'm not giving up, so I'll be back next year, fleas and all.

[Michael W]

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone, much appreciated. 

I went through the classification on the CASC website, my car starts at a 48.9, (T3) but -5 as I've got 400 tw street tires. So currently a 43.9. So this leaves me with 6 points to incur while staying at T3, as T2 starts at 50 PIPs. Correct? (let the online shopping commence)

One fun thing I noticed: the car with the worst (best?) PIP rating is an 1985 Chevy Chevette. It has a score of 7, leaving 43 (!!) points to be had. You could check every box and still be T3. :-) Gonna start looking for an LS swapped Chevette...

 

[Tysawch]

Something to consider when modifying/taking pips is that each different thing will make you take more pips, but for example coilovers is 6 pips. So buying the most entry level coilovers will give the same point hit as a more Motorsport based set. Over the last couple seasons I swapped through 4 sets in my frs and have found/lost time trying different ones out. I would say from a competitive stand point it’s worth it to put “all your eggs in one basket” when it come to the coilovers.