What corner do we use?

[donrolandofurioso]

At the last weekend, during a driver meeting one person asked: "Which corner do we use? The inner one or the outer one?" The answer was " the inside corner 8, not the new outside."

This brought back a question in me that has been occupying my mind for the entire summer...why don't we use the new, outside corner 8? Apparently it is being used only one day per year, during the HPDE (feel free to correct this rookie if he is wrong!). Because several people informally had talked about this a few times already, I decided to loosely investigate why this part of the track is not being used. The best answer among the "because" and "I dunno" was "people don't like the way it flows".

I am looking at this new piece of pavement, and I am imagining out how much thought and money was invested in laying this corner onto the ground, just to be relegated to an "and then there is"...

Some of my background is rallying, and the notion that things have to be the way they work best is completely foreign and strange to me. I am sure that I am not the only one believing that a good driver makes the best out of whatever he has available to him or her.

Is there a real reason why the outside turn 8 is not being used? I am not saying that it should be used the entire time, but from what I remember from the HPDE, the new turn is interesting and in good shape. There was some loose discussion over the past two weekends, and most of the few people involved felt that it would be nice to have a partially different track available once in a while. It would combat complacency and boredom, stir up new interest, challenge the old dogs to get used to new tricks, allow the club to advertise two(ish) tracks, rattle the established order of who is the fastest (unless the drivers are good, and then they have credence to their claim since they can master two semi-different lay-outs of the track) and it validates and credits the logistical investment of building this outside corner.

I feel that WSCC is leaving a chunk of gold lying on the ground, just because it doesn't shine as bright as the piece next to it. I am certain that some people would agree with me...even the uglier piece of gold is still Gold; why don't we pay attention to it?

[Mat]

I chose not to use the outside corner because at the transition almost every cars’ back wheels lock up and it is very rough.

 

It was originally constructed to avoid an obstacle that no longer exists. It is not being considered at this stage of the resurfacing project as it was never part of the original design.

 

I am completely open to putting it to a vote for the next event however we all know what the result will be if we do that...

Edited July 30, 2019 by Mat

[Rare Snake]

I imagine it's also a lot easier to keep track of fastest lap times when the track isn't changing in layout every event.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Rare Snake

[donrolandofurioso]

8 hours ago, Rare Snake said:

I imagine it's also a lot easier to keep track of fastest lap times when the track isn't changing in layout every event.

I am not sure how to understand this comment.

My train of thought is that one event could be held on the old configuration, the next event three weeks later could be held on the new layout. This way the times of everybody are congruent with the track used, and either all are slower or all are faster (within reason), so for time-keeping and logging there would be zero difference.

Now if you refer to tracking the fastest time overall for the entire season, it still should not make any difference. I just assume here that the new corner increases the lap times somewhat due to the slightly longer distance; however, in terms of time keeping that would not look any different than an event with heavy rain during which nobody can push the extreme limits and therefore times are slower in general.

And I am certain that modern electronics allow us to even somehow tag the times as "old" and "new", so at the end of the year there is data who was fastest on each configuration. Ultimately, one would expect both titles being held by the same person since a fast driver will be fast in any condition, not just in one particular set of environment and track layout.

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

You don't want to use that corner... It's painfully tight, on what is an otherwise fast circuit. It was put in place to slow cars down and avoid the strips of Armco to the left and right of the track at the time.

We all hated having to use that corner in the first few years of time attack.

[nopistons]

18 minutes ago, Brian_Earl_Spilner said:

It's painfully tight, on what is an otherwise fast circuit.

I'm not sure I would agree with this. You can race side-by-side through that corner, so it can't be all that tight.
Overall, its less than 2s slower in lap times, and statistically equal top end speeds into 1.

Yes, it is a technically challenging corner and a wee bit of ice racing technique will slingshot you through it!

[Ianfromduff]

Corner 9 is just a horrible feeling corner. Even if you take it right it just feels wrong. 

 

Corner 9 was Just a bandaide to an old problem and as such is no longer used anymore. 

 

 

[donrolandofurioso]

Thank you for considering the new corner 9 for the last weekend. Obviously, as evident by the poll among the hot laps people, there is a definite interest in using this corner, as well.

Every objection mentioned is true: it is not super wide (just like the old turn 9!), it seem to interrupt the flow, it is slippery when wet, and water collects at the entrance. And the rear tires lock up upon entry, although I and other people I spoke to did not experience this any different than driving the old turn 9. But ultimately, based on my observations, there were no more problems with the new turn 9 than with the old one.

I believe I am allowed to speak for others as well when I say that this change of track and pace was a welcome challenge, and I commend the race directors that were willing to place the poll and listen to the majority of the voters.

Now, on Saturday...There seemed to be the consensus to switch back, and I completely understand that notion. The universe doesn't always work in perfect ways, and somehow the old corner 9 remained closed off. With the spirit of true racers, everyone seemed to immediately adopt their driving style to the unexpected layout, and the competition among everybody seemed to be unfazed despite having to use this corner - great racing was observed regardless of the track lay-out.

I personally enjoyed the contrast between the Friday/Saturday and the Sunday layout, and I embraced both lay-outs with equal enthusiasm.  I am hoping that the race directors can find a way that both layouts can be utilized during the duration of the next season.

 

oh, btw., if I don't see you again until next season...thank you to each and everyone for all your help, advise and insight! Coming to the track has been becoming more and more my goal as the season was going on; not just because of the opportunity to let the car fly, but even more so because it always was a great opportunity to hang out with great people (cool dudes, as they are called nowadays :-)

Edited September 24, 2019 by donrolandofurioso

[Mat]

Registrants were confused by the description on MSR. Many drivers admitted they had selected the wrong corner.

 In any case I believe the “vote” may become a standard addition to all track day registration pages.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Mat