Mat
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Posts posted by Mat
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Not only for the volunteers of event days but the directors who spend countless hours holding everything together.
Our model is broken and has been for a while. Every year we try bringing benefits to volunteers and directors is seems to fall on deaf ears.
How’s that working out…
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21 hours ago, slowdriver said:
I don't know but it seems the slow admin in here are insecure about my spirited driving video that he chose to delete my post without warning. You're lying if you tell me you've never driven fast in the streets before, hypocrite.
Read our constitution and maybe you’ll understand.
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Scott is looking for organizational assistance prior and during events at Gimli Motorsports Park.
Please DM @ScottMcD if you would like to assist him on the Road Race Committee
Permits & Insurance
Scheduling
Administration
Worker Lunches / Hospitality
Concession & Restroom Supplies
Gate Workers
Corner Marshals
ETC.
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Revised Schedule - June
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Schedule revised - April 28th
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Revised Schedule
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To hopefully entice some door to door race drivers, Scott and I have introduced some promotional pricing for the 2023 season.Our numbers are dwindling for reasons we are all too familiar with. This is our incentive to try and motivate some of you to bring out your cars for an extra event or two!Season OpenerMay 26 - 28th$200 Entry Fee———————————Road Race Entry Fee PromotionStarting June 9th 2023First race $300Second race $200Third race $100Fourth race FREE*The first event of the year is $200 for everyone and does not count towards the promotion.
*All entry fees are per driver and non transferable.
**Promo begins in June
A drivers "first event" is $300. If that same driver registers for a second race their entry fee will be $200 and so on.
Please help spread the word!
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OTA MOD 2 & 3 = WSCC MOD
OTA MOD 1 = EXTREME
Thoughts?
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2 hours ago, Tysawch said:
MOD is a problem.
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2 hours ago, David Klassen said:
It would be helpful if you were to post a copy of the TA document that was discussed.
INTRODUCTION
The WSCC Time Attack Classing/PAX system is under review and has been subject to open discussion on the Forum. As a result of this discussion and unofficial poll results, we have concluded that all organizations, including SCCA, OTA, GridLife and others come with pros and cons in their respective classing structure. The one organization, in our opinion, that comes closest to meeting our goals and provides the best fit for our Club is the OTA ruleset.
We recognize the perceived issues with using PAX modifiers and, as such, will not be using the PAX modifiers for any classes other than Rookie.
CLASSING
The following six classes are being proposed for the 2023 season:
1. Extreme2. Modified (Mod)3. Super Grand Touring (SGT)4. Grand Touring (GT)5. Touring6. RookieEXTREME
This class is intended for those that want to build a “track beast” and challenge the fastest lap record put down at GMP (presently 58.962).
All safety requirements per governing body regulations must be met, otherwise there are no restrictions to modifications.
MODIFIED (MOD)
This class combines the existing OTA sub-classes of Open Mod, Mod 1, Mod 2, and Mod 3 into a single class.
The Performance Index Points (PIP) ranges from 95.0 to 129.9points.
SUPER GRAND TOURING (SGT)
This class combines the existing OTA sub-classes of SGT1, SGT2, and SGT3 into a single class.
The Performance Index Points (PIP) ranges from 80.0 to 94.9 points.
GRAND TOURING (GT)
This class combines the existing OTA sub-classes of GT1, GT2, GT3, and GT4 into a single class.
The Performance Index Points (PIP) ranges from 60.0 to 79.9points.
TOURING
This class combines the existing OTA sub-classes of T1, T2, and T3 into a single class.
The Performance Index Points (PIP) ranges from 40.0 to 59.9points.
ROOKIE
This class has been established to encourage participation from recent graduates of the Competition Licensing School. The emphasis is being placed on driver skills improvement. The following guidelines apply:
• A rookie is defined as a participant who has entered 10 or less events. A participant may retain rookie status over two or more years until they have participated in 10 events.NOTE: Participation in a single event is defined as having completed one or more laps in a single session and is not dependent on having completed all scheduled sessions forthat day.
• In order to compete in the Rookie Championship, the participant will be required to class their car in accordance with the Ontario Time Attack (OTA) classification system.• A PAX factor will be applied to each class/sub-class to neutralize/handicap any performance advantage of a specific car. This will modify the raw lap time with an adjusted lap time that will isolate the driver as the basis on which to judge performance.CLASSING PROCESS
As with our existing classing system, it will be necessary to class your car using the OTA classing system. This system usesa base starting point for a stock vehicle and then addsPerformance Index Points (PIP’s) for any modifications to arrive at a final number that will determine your class. WSCC class break points are as follows:
EXTREME – no requirement to submit a classing schedule but would typically be a vehicle with 130 or more performance index points.
MODIFIED (MOD) – 95.0 to 129.9 points
SUPER GRAND TOURING (SGT) - 80.0 to 94.9 points
GRAND TOURING (GT) - 60.0 to 79.9 points
TOURING - 40.0 to 59.9 points
ROOKIE – this class will utilize the full spectrum of classing (14 separate classes ranging from T3 to MOD 1) offered by OTA and then use the PAX modifier for that specific class as follows:
CLASS
PAX FACTOR
MOD 1
1.052
MOD 2
1.012
MOD3
1.000
SGT1
0.988
SGT2
0.976
SGT3
0.964
GT1
0.952
GT2
0.940
GT3
0.928
GT4
0.916
T1
0.904
T2
0.892
T3
0.880
CLASSING STRATEGY
It will be incumbent on the individual to assess the modifications on their car and the resultant class under which it falls. Each class has a range varying from 15 to 30 points, depending on the class and it will be important to position yourself in the upper end of the class to be competitive. Conversely, it may be more economical to de-modify your car so that it moves into the upper range of the lower class.
Let’s use the example of a lightly modified vehicle with a performance index of 63.0 points. This would place the car in the lower range of the GT class (60.0 to 79.9 points) and invariably make it difficult to compete with the cars in the higher range of the GT class. Two choices are apparent. You could throw on a lot more performance modifications, while still remaining within the class limit and become seriouslycompetitive, albeit at a cost. The other choice would be to remove a modification that was worth 3 PIP’s and drop into the upper range of the Touring class and become highly competitive in that class.
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So it’s been one week since our TA meeting.
I’d like to hear some feedback and get a sentiment check after everyone has had some time to digest the info.
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EXTREME
This class is intended for those that want to build a “track beast” and challenge the fastest lap record put down at GMP (presently 58.962).
The Performance Index Points (PIP) range is equal to or greater than 130.0 points.
All safety requirements per governing body regulations must be met, otherwise there are no restrictions to modifications. The EXTREME class was formerly known as TA-RAW.
The EXTREME class will also serve as the default class for those participants who have chosen not to class their car through the OTA car classification system.
MODIFIED (MOD)
This class combines the existing OTA sub-classes of Open Mod, Mod 1, Mod 2, and Mod 3 into a single class.
The Performance Index Points (PIP) ranges from 95.0 to 129.9 points.
SUPER GRAND TOURING (SGT)
This class combines the existing OTA sub-classes of SGT1, SGT2, and SGT3 into a single class.
The Performance Index Points (PIP) ranges from 80.0 to 94.9 points.
GRAND TOURING (GT)
This class combines the existing OTA sub-classes of GT1, GT2, GT3, and GT4 into a single class.
The Performance Index Points (PIP) ranges from 60.0 to 79.9 points.
TOURING
This class combines the existing OTA sub-classes of T1, T2, and T3 into a single class.
The Performance Index Points (PIP) ranges from 40.0 to 59.9 points.
ROOKIE
This class has been established to encourage participation from recent graduates of the Competition Licensing School. The emphasis is being placed on driver skills improvement. The following guidelines apply:
• A rookie is defined as a participant who has entered 8 or less events. A participant may retain rookie status for no more than two years or until such time they have participated in 8 events, whichever occurs first.NOTE: Participation in a single event is defined as having completed one or more laps in a single session and is not dependent on having completed all scheduled sessions for that day.
• In order to compete in the Rookie Championship, the participant will be required to class their car in accordance with the Ontario Time Attack (OTA) classification system.• A PAX factor will be applied to each class/sub-class to neutralize/handicap any performance advantage of a specific car. This will modify the raw lap time with an adjusted lap time that will isolate the driver as the basis on which to judge performance. -
2 hours ago, Rare Snake said:
Did I hear somebody say in the meeting yesterday that there's a list somewhere of the max PI for each class?
EXTREME
This class is intended for those that want to build a “track beast” and challenge the fastest lap record put down at GMP (presently 58.962).
All safety requirements per governing body regulations must be met, otherwise there are no restrictions to modifications.
MODIFIED (MOD)
This class combines the existing OTA sub-classes of Open Mod, Mod 1, Mod 2, and Mod 3 into a single class.
The Performance Index Points (PIP) ranges from 95.0 to 129.9points.
SUPER GRAND TOURING (SGT)
This class combines the existing OTA sub-classes of SGT1, SGT2, and SGT3 into a single class.
The Performance Index Points (PIP) ranges from 80.0 to 94.9 points.
GRAND TOURING (GT)
This class combines the existing OTA sub-classes of GT1, GT2, GT3, and GT4 into a single class.
The Performance Index Points (PIP) ranges from 60.0 to 79.9points.
TOURING
This class combines the existing OTA sub-classes of T1, T2, and T3 into a single class.
The Performance Index Points (PIP) ranges from 40.0 to 59.9points.
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“As a result of this discussion and unofficial poll results, we have concluded that all organizations, including SCCA, OTA, GridLife and others come with pros and cons in their respective classing structure. The one organization, in our opinion, that comes closest to meeting our goals and provides the best fit for our Club is the OTA ruleset.
We recognize the perceived issues with using PAX modifiers and, as such, will not be using the PAX modifiers…”
We will be discussing this proposal at the meeting on Thursday. I look forward to elaborating on why we decided that the “merged classing” OTA ruleset was the best fit for TA at GMP.
Special thanks to @donrolandofurioso @Ianfromduff @Weebly for their time and effort on this.
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I’m going to thank @Weebly in advance for helping create this document.
I think we’ve come full circle with our plan for next season. TA really is the new headlining discipline at GMP. I’m looking forward to a multi-championship TA grid in 2023.
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After further discussion with @Ianfromduff we’ve reached a mutual consensus in regards to 2023 proposed classing.
Please give us some time to draft a document.
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On 12/2/2022 at 4:20 PM, donrolandofurioso said:
Can you please give us access to the OTA Raw rules, so that we can peruse the difference compared to the regular OTA rules?
I’ve been in touch with @Ianfromduff about this. He’s just sent me a draft document that I will quickly discuss with him before we push it.
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I’d like to clarify something.
I’m all for merging classes as I theorized earlier with the T1,2,3 example.
I’m highly reluctant to modify any rule book beyond that example. ie spec tire, tire size limits etc.
One thing is for sure, we gotta start narrowing this down.
I’m leaning towards OTA Raw. We’re already somewhat familiar with the system. At first glance it seems fairly straight forward. Can we get some insight as to what are the problems/cons with OTA Raw? -
1 hour ago, Ianfromduff said:
I'm all for option 2. We don't attract the level of cars that gridlife has so it doesn't make much sense trying to fit our current car base into its classes. If we're looking to attract time attackers from out of province it's just not feasible due to the wcma lisencing requirement that's exclusive to time attack in manitoba. So we need to find a system that works for us and us alone. It's very unlikely out of province people(alberta/bc/usa) will sign up for a HPDE to obtain a time attack lisence only so they can travel to gmp to compete in a t/a event once or twice.
I believe more than ever that we need to make this decision with WSCC members racing at GMP being the prime focus.
licensing not withstanding, track condition, fuel costs etc are also working against us.
Ian I’d really like to hear your opinion on OTA Raw.
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I’m reading and hearing a lot banter about the Gridlife model not being inclusive enough.
Can the proponents of that system please speak on this?
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1 hour ago, Joose said:
to be fair I’ve only done a handful of events in the last few years, and don’t really care about the competition aspect beyond seeing if my scrapyard civic can keep up with much cooler cars.
Yes!
There’s many members who just want to come to GMP and challenge themselves to become better drivers. That might be the ultimate challenge and as far as they want to take it. I want everyone to know that there’s a place for drivers with that mindset.
I want to make sure however that nobody feels this way BECAUSE of their PAX factors. I believe that once PAX is gone it may wake the beast of competition in some drivers who felt “stuck”.
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2 hours ago, Rare Snake said:
The sad part is (I know I sound like a broken record) our last 2 PAX systems were so close, it just needed some more minor tinkering to bring the high end cars back into the actual competition.
Trigger warning!
There is a large contingent of members that disagree that it was “So close”. I’m not talking about BIG members, I’m talking a group of people.
I’ll be honest in saying that I am one of those people. Let me be clear that I’m not disputing the changes made, why they were made or discounting any of the championships won. I ALWAYS would rather see a new champion every year.
I can’t get behind the massive swing that we saw after the adjustment. I also don’t believe that any system can accurately adjust the theoretical times from a stock Miata to a ACR Extreme, across multiple circuits and be able to stand behind it and take it as law. Taking it one step further, I can’t get behind a 3rd party group who isn’t privy to all the formulas and data making changes to this system. I’ve seen the methodology behind the changes, I am immensely impressed with the research and effort that was put in to make these changes. You guys are amazing and brilliant.
My vision for TA is seeing cars like the GT3RS & the ACR etc. battling it out against vehicles of that type. These cars were purpose built with BILLIONS of engineering dollars making them the “ultimate track beast”. Quite frankly they shouldn’t be allowed to compete against most of the cars that come to GMP. Imagine thinking you could beat Russ with a 2001 Civic SI Coupe.
I don’t want to come off as tone deaf here, I get why PAX makes things interesting, but is it real?
I guess what it comes down to is would you rather show up with a stock BRZ and try and convince people you won a theoretical (Math) championship against the top cars at Gimli or a class where you are staged with a contingent of “similar cars” that run the same lap times.
There are too many awesome cars and great drivers that deserve to battle it out for a trophy at GMP, more winners, better competition. We have too many members who get discouraged and feel like they’ll never get their shot at a title.
I’m not talking about participation trophies here, I’m talking about fair and legitimate class racing.
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Volunteers needed!
in Volunteer Discussions
Posted
Hey man I’m not rubbing anything in anyone’s faces here.
This is nothing new.
There’s a concept within the club that “there’s always bigger problems” which is true, but the few key people who keep giving more and more are getting stretched thinner and thinner.