Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
justkickin

2013 Team Series

Recommended Posts

An option would be to run this in fun runs and you could do group battles that way. Designate those certain events as you have so people know it'd be later. That's the only way I could see it being done. Those events would not have regular fun runs. It would be the team event after the reg event
Good idea Joe! Might be able to do all of this during fun runs and really make it interesting. Plus' date=' everyone would have 4 "practice" runs already' date=' so it should make for a tight competition. Just need to ensure we have enough participants.Dave, Kosta, others: I'm all for making this thing work for everyone. I think we all are. We just have to be cognizant of following our normal rules for regular events at the same time. Tim explained it pretty well.As Tim mentioned, we can run the team events this year in a simple way and then learn how to improve it. In fact we could run one event and then change it slightly for the next event if we see an opportunity to improve.Now for my 2 cents: On one hand I'd love to have my whole team watching me and helping me in the pits; on the other hand it would be far too hectic with 3-4 teammates all running in the same run group. Anyone who co-drives can tell you that there is pretty much zero time to think between runs. If all teammates were together, it would be like codriving on steroids! So maybe it's better to have some teammates in the morning and some teammates in the afternoon. Gives you reason to watch the other run group closely too. Also lunch break would be more exciting, with all the sharing of info and strategy.[/quote'']Problem with doing them during fun runs is that we don't always do them if the event runs long or the weather turns bad etc. Beau makes a valid point as well. As a codriven car, I can tell you there isn't much time between runs as it is. Adding more to fit between runs would, IMHO suck the fun out of it by adding stress to the day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally having half your team race in the morning might be more fun. You can talk and get/give advice during the lunch break.It's the first year, just wait and see how it goes. Should be a hoot !I am curious about how/who will be making the teams ? My bad if there is already info somewhere on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess if other people that get killed by PAX are throwing their names in, I'll put mine in too.Tim R, Chevrolet, Z06, SS-S, 6Liam R, Chevrolet, Z06, SS-S, 1Dave P, BMW, Alpina B3, DSP-S, 9Kosta F, Civic, Si Turbo, SMF-S, 12Beau M, Subaru, WRX STi, STU, 2Jim A, Subaru, WRX, DS-S, 1Brian T, Mazda, 3, HS-S, 2TrevorB, Ford, Mustang GT,SM, 7Derrick P., Toyota, Corolla, SMF-S, 3Joe P, Toyota, MR2 Spyder, CS-S, 10Jeff J, Honda, S2000, BS-S, 8Peter G, Porsche Cayman S, AS-S, 4Shawn C, Golf R, SM-S, 8Igor Č, Acura Integra GSR, STC, 1 (technically 1/2)Ian W, Infinity Get35, FS-S, 1 Bryan S, Toyota, MR2 V6, SSM-S, 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do we really need to use PAXed times for the team event? If you select the teams to be even, based on Raw times, we still get a good competition, but we're all racing straight up for a change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do we really need to use PAXed times for the team event? If you select the teams to be even' date=' based on Raw times, we still get a good competition, but we're all racing straight up for a change.[/quote']I'd prefer that too. PAX is trash.As long as the teams are evenly distributed with different types of cars/drivers, there should be no reason whatsoever to use that crap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'd prefer that too. PAX is trash.As long as the teams are evenly distributed with different types of cars/drivers' date=' there should be no reason whatsoever to use that crap.[/quote']We all know how you feel about PAX. Quit spreading your propaganda already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We all know how you feel about PAX. Quit spreading your propaganda already.

Hahaha propaganda! Forgive me for not bending over and taking PAX up the rear like so many people here who, for whatever reason, love it.Just saying. There should be no reason to use PAX for the team scoring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There should be no reason to use PAX for the team scoring.

Shhh, the grown-ups are talking.;):P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PAX takes the car out of the equation and is the only way to compare drivers, thus making the teams fair. If you took an average driver and put him/her in a fast car, his/her time goes way down and that would not be fair. Also, the reverse is true. Take a good driver and put them in a slow car - nobody wants that person anymore because they are handicapped by the car. So it would become a challenge of who can get a codrive in the fastest car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PAX takes the car out of the equation and is the only way to compare drivers' date=' thus making the teams fair. If you took an average driver and put him/her in a fast car, his/her time goes way down and that would not be fair. Also, the reverse is true. Take a good driver and put them in a slow car - nobody wants that person anymore because they are handicapped by the car. So it would become a challenge of who can get a codrive in the fastest car.[/quote']Bzzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong.Most people have been here long enough to know who's fast and who isn't. If the teams are assigned properly, with a fair mix of fast AND slow drivers/cars in each team, the competition can potentially be fierce with raw times alone. There are more than enough past event and historical event results to make informed team assignment choices.Saying that PAX is absolutely required is just lazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bzzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong.Most people have been here long enough to know who's fast and who isn't.
Bzzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong.You haven't been out much lately' date=' so I'll give you a mulligan. :P We have more new competitors this year than ever before, so the committee making the teams doesn't yet know who's going to get fast this year and who isn't. Wouldn't it be unfortunate if someone with a slower car got really good, but still got out-scored by the guy in the fast car who hasn't improved much? Carrying on with that idea, here is a simple argument for PAX:
  • A great driver can place top-5 Raw in maybe 35% of the cars that show up to an average WSCC event;
  • A great driver can get top-5 in PAX in maybe 50% of the cars that show up to an average WSCC event;
  • Therefore, PAX limits the potential of fewer competitors than raw does, i.e., it creates a more even playing field.
  • Furthermore, it's cheaper to remove mods and prep to a lower class than it is to just make your car faster overall; and
  • As a club, we have to think about sustainability. Rewarding competitors who prep for real classes is a way of encouraging commitment to the sport, and therefore to the club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And if you want an even simpler argument:Catering to the noisy few rarely gets you far with the silent majority. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Carrying on with that idea' date=' here is a simple argument for PAX:
  • A great driver can place top-5 Raw in maybe 35% of the cars that show up to an average WSCC event;
  • A great driver can get top-5 in PAX in maybe 50% of the cars that show up to an average WSCC event;
  • Therefore, PAX limits the potential of fewer competitors than raw does, i.e., it creates a more even playing field.
  • Furthermore, it's cheaper to remove mods and prep to a lower class than it is to just make your car faster overall; and
  • As a club, we have to think about sustainability. Rewarding competitors who prep for real classes is a way of encouraging commitment to the sport, and therefore to the club.
Except for one thing...All of that is fine and dandy for the regular championship points competition... Which the team competition isn't.Whatever. Even in the first year experimentation stage of a new event, everyone is still so bent on continuing to suck PAX's dick instead of perhaps TRYING something different for once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was PAX mean to you in high school or something?

Kosta is trying to be the leader of a small movement. It's funny though that the largest opponent to pax doesn't even regularly race. I haven't seen him at a autox in years. Guess pax made him leave, even though SMF has a really good pax factor and is way better then raw times. Another thing to note, without pax, anyone can car hop or car swap and put down a better time and sway the competition. At least pax will balance times if I hop in the vette or beau's subie, and thus it won't sway team results unfairly.Edit add: i think we all should try it out and can improve on it if it is deemed to not work well. This is to have fun and better then nothing at all. It can be reviewed and changed for next year should the admins decide it should be

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kosta is trying to be the leader of a small movement. It's funny though that the largest opponent to pax doesn't even regularly race. I haven't seen him at a autox in years. Guess pax made him leave' date=' even though SMF has a really good pax factor and is way better then raw times.[/quote']I'm not trying to be anything, Joe. Just thought I'd speak up and hopefully convince people that PAX isn't the be-all and end-all like everyone seems to think it is. A wasted effort, though.(For the record, I did run an event last year. Plan to make it to more this year. Weekends have been pretty busy for me the past few years.)In any case, carry on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TRYING something different for once.

While I find that an impassioned argument may be an effective tool in swaying public opinion, colouring one's argument with debased words reduces its effectiveness.As this is a public forum for the Winnipeg Sports Car Club's members, I would encourage everyone to abstain from using derogatory terms to express his/her views.Peter Gwyn2013 WSCC President

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not trying to be anything' date=' Joe. Just thought I'd speak up and hopefully convince people that PAX isn't the be-all and end-all like everyone seems to think it is. A wasted effort, though.(For the record, I did run an event last year. Plan to make it to more this year. Weekends have been pretty busy for me the past few years.)In any case, carry on.[/quote']Kosta, we all know you as passionate behind the keyboard. You managed to attend the one weekend I was gone then :pIm for this team challenge, and since its the first year just want to try it as the admin, who thoroughly thought this over and deliberated on the idea, have decided to. If there are changes decided on, we can push for them next season. Try it before you knock it ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! I'm sorry I brought it up. I should have known mentioning the word "PAX" would cause a crap-storm!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! I'm sorry I brought it up. I should have known mentioning the word "PAX" would cause a crap-storm!

Haha...only for Kosta and welllll, he is Kosta. Wouldn't have it any other way from him. :DAnyway, not much more to say here on the PAX issue. Lets just go have fun. If Kosta can beat me RAW I will buy him a beer and listen to him discuss PAX until at least the bottom of my bottle that arrives at the same time. Yes, every conversation can be tied to alcohol timers. As Kosta said, "carry on". There were some good ideas coming before we got a little side tracked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not trying to be anything' date=' Joe. Just thought I'd speak up and hopefully convince people that PAX isn't the be-all and end-all like everyone seems to think it is. A wasted effort, though.(For the record, I did run an event last year. Plan to make it to more this year. Weekends have been pretty busy for me the past few years.)In any case, carry on.[/quote']HAHAHA Kosta, thank you! I've posted here maybe 3 times in as many years but as soon as I read this post I felt like I hadn't missed a thing. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow!, I thought this kinda stuff didn't happen here. First I have seen of it in 3 years.Since none of the new guys have commented here, I think I will.I don't know who Kosta is, and how he can give any kind of opinion on whether pax is needed or not when he has not been to more than a couple events in the last 3 years.In the last 3 years the popularity of Autocross within the TTI community has exploded. All of these new drivers need the pax to compete with the better drivers. I personally do not want to have to spend a bunch of money in order to compete. If all of the new drivers were getting beat all the time, they would not become what I hope they will, "long term autocrossers".The way I see things is; the top guys need us and we need them. The event wouldn't be very much fun if you only had 15 to 20 drivers for each event, thus they need us. On the other hand, some of us hope to join that group by learning from you, thus we need you.Making an entry level sport more "new driver" friendly is only good business. And good business is what will give this Club longevity. Being able to race your daily drive (mods or not) is awesome, and is in the end what will help the club to continue to grow.Their will be no movement......lol. Unless it's in the porta pottie.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm in.Tim R, Chevrolet, Z06, SS-S, 6Liam R, Chevrolet, Z06, SS-S, 1Dave P, BMW, Alpina B3, DSP-S, 9Kosta F, Civic, Si Turbo, SMF-S, 12Beau M, Subaru, WRX STi, STU, 2Jim A, Subaru, WRX, DS-S, 1Brian T, Mazda, 3, HS-S, 2TrevorB, Ford, Mustang GT,SM, 7Derrick P., Toyota, Corolla, SMF-S, 3Joe P, Toyota, MR2 Spyder, CS-S, 10Jeff J, Honda, S2000, BS-S, 8Peter G, Porsche Cayman S, AS-S, 4Shawn C, Golf R, SM-S, 8Igor Č, Acura Integra GSR, STC, 1 (technically 1/2)Ian W, Infinity Get35, FS-S, 1Bryan S, Toyota, MR2 V6, SSM-S, 3 Nick H, Honda Civic Si, SMF-S, 15+ (not that it shows :D)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taken from the Team Series Rules..."13. Team members will be separated from the overall results and only scored against those competing in the team championship."Just to be clear...This means the team events do not count toward the club championship for the participating drivers. Correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×