Al Marcoux Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 To anyone interested,the inevitable is coming #%@&%#' WINTER!The 2011 ice racing season is coming and want to know who might be interested in rubber to ice, studded, hot laps on ice , ice auto X, ice racing school , drifting on ice or anything else for that matter?(jumping jacks,russian push ups)snow angels(Racing )to date I have a minimum of 10 RTI cars and 5 studded cars (need 6 to start)more on ice racing to come. (specs,$$,dates and rules)(hot laps etc) Any car welcome bring your beater bring your Boxster any tire allowed R's not recommended,got any chains?no cage or bars needed .Cost should be about 30 to 50$(more cars the cheaper) ,a helmet (sa 2005 TBA)and a membership 50$ All these events would be done on the saturday before a sunday ice race from 10am til 4pm .and or free studded hot laps on race dayThese events(hot laps) would not be timed officially unless specified,more about having fun learning and teaching. Please send a PM Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos1 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Ice auto X sounds awesome. I'd be intereted in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Posted November 11, 2010 Share Posted November 11, 2010 Hey Al!Im hoping to make it out again this year. It kinda all depends on what the event dates are, as Im working shift work. I have another civic that I wanna build, make 2 cars out of our last one. Its already gutted and the main hoop is already bent. So ya.. any tentitave dates for this season??Cody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Marcoux Posted November 12, 2010 Author Share Posted November 12, 2010 tentative ice racing datesJan 8/9 Ski pondJan 22/23 Ski pondFeb 5/6 PortageFeb 19/20 St MaloMarch 5/6 Ski pondThese are tentative Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiraamzsy Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 Any more info on ice auto x events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Marcoux Posted November 26, 2010 Author Share Posted November 26, 2010 sent you a pm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Hey Al,Wondering about if I should take my daily driver out to one of these events. I know a lot of guys just rund dedicated ice racers but that's not an option for me this year.I have 2 main questions: 1. I have winter tires, but not a dedicated set and not studded tires or anything else for racing. Do I need anything else to prepare my car? I know I need a helmet, license, etc. 2. Since it's my daily driver, I'm worried about sliding off track, crashing, and wrecking my car. I'm assuimg it's likely that a novice racer goes off track, so is there a large runout area? Compared to AutoX in the summer, if you go off the course you'll just slide on tarmac or worse case onto the grass, but no harm is done to your car. Would ice racing / rallyX / hot laps be similar to this?Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don4501 Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 if you go off course you will destroy plastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 if you go off course you will destroy plasticYeah I'm kinda afraid of that.What about bending axles, throwing off alignment, that kinda stuff? How fast are we going and how tall and hard are the snowbanks / other obstacles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run Away Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 I'd be interested in beating my winter car around on some snow/ice too. What are track conditions typically like? Would a fwd car with cheap winter tires be fun still or would it be an exercise in futility trying to get moving or turn at speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 There's typically very little runoff room. For ice autocrosses the course would typically be set with the max possible room to the banks, but it's still much more likely to have car damage than summer autox.For lapping and anything involving the open track, the edges of the track are the snowbanks. Picture a street circuit like you see in pro racing, but instead of concrete it's snow of varying hardness. When the banks are freshly plowed, they're pretty soft. As in - you may destroy a bumper and crumple sheet metal a bit but it likely won't destroy a car. If it's the same track that was used a few weeks ago, it's rock hard. I very much drove with my wallet between my foot and my gas pedal when it was a street car. It's too much fun to skip, but I always threw away laptimes if I was at all concerned about hitting a bank in a given corner.Ben - you've pretty much described every ice racer, except they're a fwd car with fancy winter tires. 90 hp feels like 500 when you're on ice. The surface is typically a bit grooved up from the studded cars, but otherwise is pretty smooth. It's usually no worse than the bumps at St. Andrews. I've had a blast with a bone-stock Miata on all-season tires. It was painfully slow, but I didn't care as it felt really fast in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don4501 Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Corey summed it up nicely.i wouldn't worry about mechanical damage. The chances of body damages occuring during iceX is fairly low. I wouldn't worry about it.i think most previous damages occured during lapping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conebasher Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Here is my 72 Beetle doing some laps on an ice race track: It was big fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted November 28, 2010 Share Posted November 28, 2010 Awesome, thanks for all the responses guys. Like Corey said he did, I'd likely drive with my wallet between my foot and the floor. Still should be fun though. Think you have all convinced me to at least give it a try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Marcoux Posted November 28, 2010 Author Share Posted November 28, 2010 Just some more info Last year a blue evo was seen flying around the track on all seasons the acceleration was pretty good and the drifting was great too but stopping was impossible every time you hit the brakes you get pie plate eyeballs you need to control yourself.SLOW DOWN.With all this forward traction you can easily over drive what the car will handle or yourself for that matter (lots of go but stopping? ) I drove this blue evo last year and it is criticle that you scandinavian flick it first other wise turn and throttle only gets you over steer and is slower (looks cool) than having the car already sideways first then throttle out .On a 90 degree corner with the car already sideways the car is now facing the direction you want to go just accelerate out of the corner JUST.If you don`t hurl it sideways you now need to turn 90 degrees with lots of push(understeer) and that really sucks cause there goes your plastic bumperAll this was done in slow mo cause of the all seasons tires (still fun ) .Then I jumped into my buddy's Subaru AWD lowest model (I don't know the models sorry)he had some new cheaper winter tires well let me tell you the evo was a toilet compared to the sub. The Sub was way more predictable ON winters .Both cars reacted the same way (ALL control features off )just the evo was slower and the risk off plowing into the snow bank was higher of course(no grip)Then my buddy drove the his sub and started slow and worked his way up to respectable for a full rookie(0 experience) He did about 40 laps before he overdrove and hulrled it backwards into the snow bank and cracked his rear bummper but took it like well .Beaters are much better for ice anything scratch and dent issues but if you drive within your abilities and or the cars capabilities you could drive all day and not hit anything . Thanks Corey for clearing some stuff for me and he's correct.The ice surface is lumpy and grippy not glass smooth winter tires grab on to whatever possible except if its glass hurl it sideways and staight off into the bank now you have to hurl it sideways way earlier and you might make it (pie plates eyes is nothing we're talking large dinner plates and your pucker syndrom is VERY puckered) not fun.The studded cars chew the ice up for the rubber cars Most damage is done during hotlaps I agree. It`s called (Mario Andretti syndrom)SLOWER IS FASTER nothing is slower than 0 mhp.when you stuff itLater AL 2011 ice race director p.s. I want to make this fun for all and there`s nothing better than learning how to drive on ice .EVERONE needs this as we have winter for 4 months a year .Nothing worse than someone crapping thier pants in front of you at 20 kph on Portage and it not even snowing JEEES! `Let me know if you have any suggestions or ideas.AL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Awesome, thanks for the info. Looking forward to learning more from you guys and becoming a better driver during the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grail Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 As someone who drove both an ice racer and his subie on ice, it's fun in either cars. You're alot more fearless in the ice racer since it's got a roll cage and generally worth less than your front bumper.My first time at ice autocross, my brother spun it three times on the first lap and busted up my front bumper. He was used to giving it gas when he got bent out of shape during summer autocross.You just have to realize that you can pick up speed at a good clip but stopping is a whole different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiraamzsy Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 I too don't really want to damage my car but really want to try this out. I'm sure everyone knows the risks involved just as they know the risks when they get a bit gas pedal happy on the street with curbs present.What would be the difference between autox and hotlapping? Are there other cars on the track with hotlapping? Both are timed are they not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 I'm sure everyone knows the risks involved just as they know the risks when they get a bit gas pedal happy on the street with curbs present.That's a very good way to put that. Just like on the street' date=' you take your chances when you want to play a bit. The only difference is that on the street you have Mr. MPI to back you up if you make a big mistake. Not so on the race track.I got it very wrong once in my Miata when I was pushing it a bit - I went right through the bank at the end of a turn at something like 50 km/hr. Luckily the snow was soft or it would have been meant a new bumper, rad, and a tow back to Winnipeg at least!What would be the difference between autox and hotlapping? Are there other cars on the track with hotlapping? Both are timed are they not?Hotlapping is just doing laps around a track with no timing. Just go as slow/fast as you want to. Usually there are multiple cars on track at once, though 'racing' is strictly not allowed. Pass on the straights only when you're sure the slower car has moved aside to let you by.I've got some ice racing videos up on YouTube. They're not the best, but it can give you some idea of what a typical open track is like from a cockpit view. Search for user 'coreydyck' and look for the winter ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss_Behavin Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 Another option is to buy a dedicated ice race car. Al would likely point you in the right direction and as Corey mentioned, you can usually pick one up for less than the damage you could cause to your car. I suppose an issue would be that you need a trailer since it won't be street legal. I haven't done the hotlaps but I did participate in the iceautox a few years ago and it is REALLY fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 A bunch of us got together and shared a car a number of years back. It didn't turn out as well as expected but it was still fun. The whole album. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v469/Hugger1LE/Jan%2012%2007%20Ice%20AutoX/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conebasher Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 A bunch of us got together and shared a car a number of years back. It didn't turn out as well as expected but it was still fun. The whole album. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v469/Hugger1LE/Jan%2012%2007%20Ice%20AutoX/X2 It was great fun and cost very little. My race Bug is for sale and comes with a set of studded ice race tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chkdsk Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 An Ice Racer's POV: If any of you are remotely thinking about this; you will not be disappointed. It is an excellent experience and you will have a good time. You will learn a TON about how your car will handle on ice in different situations and how to properly control it. This is the opportunity to have some good seat time for minimal bucks. To be honest, I believe days like this should be mandatory for every winter driver and I thank the Ice Race team for organizing the track time. If you are remotely interested, make sure you contact Al Marcoux. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRDTurko Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 I might come out for a few auto x and maybe some hot laps in my 85 civic. (might be the one place 60hp wont be an embarasment ) I have winter tires on the front but only all seasons on the back... will I have to worry about loosing the back alot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Marcoux Posted December 16, 2010 Author Share Posted December 16, 2010 oversteer villeHi ,Yes It will want to oversteer easily .Its actually easier to drive within reason of course now you dont have to try so hard to slide it sideways you don't need so much speed to hurl it just turn in and lift and out she gets .(off throttle oversteer)with winters all round you need more speed cause your back wheels are to grippy now If you have to much oversteer( you should have counter steered by now)floor the throttle for a sec or 2( maybe longer depends on how far your ass is) to spin your front tires to pull you back or you can hold your throttle and it might stay sideways while going staight If you lift now it should oversteer more if you gas hard it will pull the car in the direction your wheels are pointing and should whip your ass the other way and now you're oversteering the other way and wiith a little practice you should be able to drive in a staight line with your ass wagging (no parking brakes) .You can do the same thing with the park brake but now you only have one hand on the wheel and well park brakes are for cheeters. (off throttle oversteer is criticle for ice driving /racing) I will teach anyone who wants to learn it at all the saturday ice events 1st one is jan 8 ski pond just ask and I'll gladly help Try this in an icy parking lot . Have fun with that Later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Al can teach you about oversteer. I remember following Al in poor visibility. (Which is most of the time in ice racing!) You knew a corner was coming up when his tail lights disappeared - he was completely sideways. Sometimes you'd see his headlights. Very cool to watch from that seat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRDTurko Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 thanks Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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