How hard is the Gimli track on brakes?

[Vapour Trails]

I know this question is highly variable on the car and driver, but generally speaking how is the course layout on brakes?I know there is one serious straight away (1/4 mile) that could produce fade, how are the other corners?I'm trying to determine what modifications will be necessary. The minimum would be new fluid and pads, moderate would be fluid, pads and cooling ducts and the extreme answer is a big brake setup (borrowed from the GT500).

[Miss_Behavin]

We had no problems with the Boxster at all. Not a hint of fade, but our JCW MINI was terrible! I know it doesn't answer your question but I'd say when in doubt it is alway better to go with the better brakes. It is so depressing (and potentially costly) when you cook the brakes

[conebasher]

Sports cars (not "sporty" cars) don't generally have brake problems on race tracks unless you throw mods and sticky rubber into the equation. Every other street car will overheat the brakes after 3+ laps of hard driving. I suspect that your car is fast and heavy enough to need bigger brakes if you're doing more than a couple of hot laps at Gimli before letting them cool off.

[Vapour Trails]

We had no problems with the Boxster at all. Not a hint of fade' date=' but our JCW MINI was terrible! I know it doesn't answer your question but I'd say when in doubt it is alway better to go with the better brakes. It is so depressing (and potentially costly) when you cook the brakes[/quote']I noticed the Boxster has fairly big brakes up front, so I can understand that it could manage.

Sports cars (not "sporty" cars) don't generally have brake problems on race tracks unless you throw mods and sticky rubber into the equation. Every other street car will overheat the brakes after 3+ laps of hard driving. I suspect that your car is fast and heavy enough to need bigger brakes if you're doing more than a couple of hot laps at Gimli before letting them cool off.

How many hot laps would take place at the HPDE event? I assume that a new driver would start pretty slow and work up to higher intensity driving, but I have no idea what duration we are talking about.From speaking with other Mustang owners, brake ducts can make the stock sized brakes resist fade much better. There are some neat kits available that aim cooling air right at the rotor, via a duct in the front bumper and some dryer-type tubing.I guess only experience will answer the question completely, but I know that I would be in for a short weekend if I went out with the stock setup.

[Corey]

My experiences:My Ford Focus was completely fine in fully stock form (including pads and tires) for as long as I ever got to run it. I think that was around 10 laps in a school with only 5 or 6 entrants. Adding Rs didn't change things over the 5-lap stints we got.My Miata got pad fade right at the end of the 5th lap when using Axxis Ultimate pads, everything else in the braking system was stock. I got pad fade going into turn 3 as it's not long after you really stand on them into 1. Going off in 3 is not recommended...You should be putting a ton of heat into the brakes into turn 1 right after you own that front straight with your new power. At least upgrade the pads and change the fluid. If anything feels funny back off and brake much earlier for turns.

[Corey]

Sorry, missed the important question:I believe the HPDE still does a warm-up lap, then 5 hot laps, then a cool-down lap.Make good use of that cool-down lap - no braking at all after turn 1. And don't set your parking brake when you get back: leave the car in gear or chock the wheels.

[Art]

Speaking from HUGGRRR experience. Pads and fluid are an absolute must.Ducts would be a really good idea. Big Brake kit would be nice, but not critical, for HPDE.Note: Big Brake kits still need pads and fluid. I went off on corner 3 day 2 of the HPDE school with the 996TT big brake kit on HUGGRRR. From new to rivets in a day and 3/4. :eek:BTW ... there are 3 serious braking zones with a HP car ... into 1, 3 & either 7 or 8.

[Hard Dog]

The HPDE is usually set up with shorter stints on the track, so as not to overheat stock brakes. Solosprint events are harder on the brakes. I never had any issues with the stock pads on the RacEscort at the school, but by the end of the first Solosprint event the pads, which were new before the school, were toast. Never had brake fade, but the cross-drilled rotors ate them. I upgraded to HP+ pads and had no more wear issues and they're good for another season.

[Vapour Trails]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

Yeah, on my Civic, stock pads would start to fade pretty quick. By the 4th lap, braking would be finished on stock pads.With HP+ pads though, I've had zero fade for each stint, and plenty of meat for several seasons.

[Fast_Toys]

With my vette, I didn't have any fade but I still ate up a lot of pads and cracked both front rotors after the school. That was of course about 90 laps in total though and that was the original set of rotors on the car.I was driving very hard and I was on R compounds. There are two big braking points at Gimli that drop you from about 150 down to a low speed. The turn after the straight is not very hard on the brakes as you carry a lot of speed.The rear rotors and pads wouldn't stop squeaking after the event no matter what I did so I changed them both.I also melted a rear brake piston rubber cover.

[dino]

The school sessions are designed to reduce the possibility of fade as much as possible. We try to restrict the sessions to 5 laps at a time. Experience has shown that this reduces the overall wear and tear on cars and prolongs the experience. With a heavy car I would bring an extra set of pads, brake fluid and extra tires if possible. Also plan on rotating tires on a regular basis.Dino (WSCC Chief Driving Instructor)

[erniesb]

I ran a season of solosprint and did the HPDE school and only needed to change the brake fluid. Brakes did start to fade after 5 laps

[Jordan_Veale]

I got a set of Hawk blue race pads from the Zedrils, and a set of race slotted rotors which I swapped in every race weekend. Still haven't done fluid, I have stainless brake lines to put in and quite frankly I just don't want to do that myself....Anyway, I did HPDE with stock pads and rotors, fade in 3-5 laps for sure. Race pads, brake later than you feel like you should and they just stop quicker every time and with more heat in them. Truly frightening actually...and amazing :)Race pads aren't cheap, but a set of separate ones means you get home at the end of the day if you crack a rotor, and you're less likely to end up in a berm

[Matthew Capina]

My experience of the HPDE

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

Not really a surprise there. I go through a new set of rotors pretty much every year.Granted, my car has rear drums, so the majority of the braking is coming from the front to begin with, but yeah... rotors take a beating too... not just pads.

[Vapour Trails]

Well I am now the owner of a brake duct kit. One step out of the way, now pads and fluid.

[Vapour Trails]

I got my answer, pretty damn hard. Even with upgraded pads and high-temp fluid I had noticeable fade when I wasn't even pushing that hard. It's a scary thing at 200 km/h when you have 3,600 pounds + driver to stop.

[LittleBlueGT]

I got my answer' date=' pretty damn hard. Even with upgraded pads and high-temp fluid I had noticeable fade when I wasn't even pushing that hard. It's a scary thing at 200 km/h when you have 3,600 pounds + driver to stop.[/quote']upgraded pads = HP+ or some kind of street pad?If so, then get some REAL track pads!

[apex]

I only have the Hawk HPS pads on the front and yes, some fade after 4-5 laps, but still manageble.I do need to bleed the lines I think though. =)

[Fast_Toys]

Hawk HPS are ok but like you said, they fade after 4-5 laps. The HP+ are much better but dust a lot more and can be noisy at times.

[LittleBlueGT]

And the HP+ are not even real track pads.get the 60s or 70s for real track use, and not worry about fade.

[apex]

Not easy to use when it's a daily driver too.

[grail]

I have the HP+ pads on the car and dot 6 fluid. Had two drivers in the car and didn't have an issue with brake fade.

[nishanna]

Like Chris and Phil said, unless you're willing to swap brake pads every time you go to the track, most "street-able" pads are going to have some fade at the track, especially on a heavy car. The problem will get worse as the pads wear down since there is less material to dissipate the heat. Track-only pads are going to be brutal in everyday driving, don't go that route.Another thing I always find interesting is how guys spend all their money on go-fast parts, but do very little to the brakes. With more power comes more speed and more abuse on the brakes. Expecting upgraded pads to be enough to compensate for 150 more hp is an unrealistic expectation. See the guy with the supercharged 280z and wilwood big brake kit that I raced against at solosprint last year - he's got the right idea!

[Al Marcoux]

Brake pads and rotors are the disposable items.I run hawk blues and 20$ rotors 2sets of rotors for one set of pads .I never boil my brakes I use ford 500deg dot 3 from the tire and never had issues .( at least 10 years)In fact most of the racers at Gimli use the same stuff I use no one comes to me complaining about brake fade . Any rotor with holes and slots are even worse (hair line cracks) etc Not worth the money its cheaper to replace with 20$ rotors 2 or 3 times a year( 4 or 5 events) then spending gobs of cash on fancy plated drilled rotorsthere are exceptions to this also but in general this works for me .Al

[LittleBlueGT]

You guys do realize that swapping brake pads is pretty easy, and only takes a few mins.Guys with fairly light cars and less then 300 hp generally can get away with something like HP+, but start getting 3500+ cars, 400+ hp and a hot days with sticky tires and the brakes are not gonna stand up.If you are gonna track your car and your "street" brakes even begin to fade, just get track pads, it is just not worth it. Besides, track pads will last longer if they are used in their optimum temp range, then hipo street pads that are being run too hot.You also risk getting uneven deposits on your rotors if over using the pads you have.

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

Since I started SoloSprinting 3 years ago, I've gone through a set of rotors every year... and my Civic is pretty darn light.Just a warning to everyone, be prepared to spend money on replacement rotors too.... Replacement pads alone are not the be-all and end-all.Rotors are cheap anyway, like Al mentioned. And yeah, I had drilled rotors once.... they cracked and crumbled after only one event. They weren't designed to handle that sort of abuse.

[Vapour Trails]

I was using EBC yellows, which EBC claims are a dual-purpose pad, capable of handling track use. BUT...later after purchase when I read the fine print, then said race cars up to 2800 lbs.The easy and obvious upgrade is the GT500 Brembos..except they won't clear a lot of wheels, including the 17" wheels with R comps I bought for autocross. Believe you me, I've thought a lot about brakes. There isn't a big brake kit I haven't looked into, but each comes with pros and cons, including a massive increase in weight and pad expense and the possibility you will need to go shopping for new wheels and tires.I didn't have the brake cooling ducts hooked up, because I ran out of time to prep and given the weather I didn't think it would be an issue - now I know better. I'll test those before I explore other options.

[apex]

For what I'm doing/planning on doing, the HPS or HP+ will be just fine for me. Little to no fade at 5 laps even weighing in at 3300. I will have to have a look at the rotors though, thanks for the heads up guys.