Runaway Lexus kills 4

[sirr0bin]

It's scary how many people don't know how to operate their vehicles. There should be a training course or something when you buy one... seriously! In an automatic, the shifter is gated to prevent going from netural to reverse so if the throttle sticks open just push the shifter forward as hard as you can and it'll go into neutral. A neat trick that few people seem to know about. I've had the throttle go WOT unexpectedly in the mustang in a parking lot once and it is a very scary experience. <3 clutches.

[Hard Dog]

In an automatic' date=' the shifter is gated to prevent going from netural to reverse so if the throttle sticks open just push the shifter forward as hard as you can and it'll go into neutral. A neat trick that few people seem to know about.[/quote']Actually, that's not always true. I tested the A/T, in the Fusion, while in D. It wouldn't slip into neutral by just pushing on the stick. I had to depress the release button on the lever first.

[MRS Joe]

Actually' date=' that's not always true. I tested the A/T, in the Fusion, while in D. It wouldn't slip into neutral by just pushing on the stick. I had to depress the release button on the lever first.[/quote']That isn't good imo. Ive never had a car that needed the selector lever button pressed between N and D

[Hard Dog]

That isn't good imo. Ive never had a car that needed the selector lever button pressed between N and D

Yeah, I found that surprising. I can pull it from N to D without pressing the release, but not the other way. I would expect the opposite, from a safety POV.:confused:

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

My mother's automatic 05 Civic doesn't let you go from D to N either without depressing the button. N to D though slides right in without.I imagine it's to keep people from inadvertently knocking the shifter out of drive?? Who knows.

[Corey]

Working in a highly-customized vehicle business, I see differences in opinions that drive this kind of thing every day. One customer will say: "Of course I want to have to push the button to go from Drive to Neutral! One time one of our drivers was stopped on some train tracks and he accidentally bumped it into Neutral. Thankfully no one was injured as he figured it out in time, why would you even think about having it freely slide from a drive gear to neutral? Are you stupid?"Then, the next customer will say:"You need to allow the shifter to slide freely from Drive to Neutral. My goodness, what if the throttle sticks? I can't think of a single situation where you'd ever want to require an extra step to get a vehicle out of gear in an emergency. Are you stupid?"I've seen similar in back-to-back conference calls. Luckily with electronic controls it's not that hard to customize to suit each customer's desires. When they have multi-million dollar contracts we do what they want. ;)Another random one: Push-to-Apply vs. Pull-to-Apply parking brakes. Both are used although Pull-to-Apply is much more common. Imagine switching between the two and then experiencing a brake failure!

[JT_TT]

Working in a highly-customized vehicle business' date=' I see differences in opinions that drive this kind of thing every day. [/quote']These are reasons i'm glad the fastest thing we have is 7km/h.

[Jeff]

Yeah' date=' I found that surprising. I can pull it from N to D without pressing the release, but not the other way. I would expect the opposite, from a safety POV.:confused:[/quote']I always thought the point of allowing the push from D to N without a button was to allow you to do it in a panic WITHOUT going all the way to R. So going to R requires an extra deliberate step that isn't required to get to N.Maybe your car has a lockout that won't let it go into reverse if the car is moving, thus eliminating the need to differentiate between N and R with a button push.

[Hard Dog]

I always thought the point of allowing the push from D to N without a button was to allow you to do it in a panic WITHOUT going all the way to R. So going to R requires an extra deliberate step that isn't required to get to N. Maybe your car has a lockout that won't let it go into reverse if the car is moving' date=' thus eliminating the need to differentiate between N and R with a button push.[/quote']I have to press the button to get it into R, but I can simply pull the shifter back into N without the button. Once in N I have to press the button to put it back in R. It has the reverse restrictions between N & D. In fact, I can pull the shifter from R right to D without pressing the button. Seems like an odd choice of shifter restrictions, IMO.

[yofa]

it's hard to get specific details, but it sounds like the pedal itself and its mechanical linkage is being blamed and replaced:http://charlottesville.injuryboard.com/defective-and-dangerous-products/toyota-sticky-throttles-another-recall-.aspx?googleid=277368if there was friction in the linkage that couldn't be overcome by the return springs, then yes, that would definitely be a problem.

[Art]

http://charlottesville.injuryboard.com/defective-and-dangerous-products/toyota-sticky-throttles-another-recall-.aspx?googleid=277368if there was friction in the linkage that couldn't be overcome by the return springs, then yes, that would definitely be a problem.

That's in a whole different range of models and years.

[conebasher]

A huge recall and halt of production like this is bad news for everybody because it's a setback for the economy, not just Toyota.

[Vapour Trails]

A huge recall and halt of production like this is bad news for everybody because it's a setback for the economy' date=' not just Toyota.[/quote']It's not bad for other car manufacturers, in fact they are probably tickled pink. In the short term, potential Toyota customers may decide to buy another brand, and in the long term it's a hit to their reputation. I read that Toyota factory workers are still getting paid and will be training or doing sudoku, so I don't know that it will hurt the greater economy all that much although I wouldn't want to own stock at the moment.

[MRS Joe]

12 percent drop and I don't know how much further it went today. They will overcome this as many other manufacturers have but its a blow to the name in the meantime.

[yofa]

a little more detail:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35103217/ns/business-autos/gm is jumping on the opportunity to slander their rival by offering incentives to those turned off by toyota's troubles.

[piston_honda]

http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/feb2010/bw20100225_403524.htmInteresting reading to help cut through the hype.

[Art]

how about ...http://www.leftlanenews.com/report-toyota-electronics-design-flaw-causes-sudden-acceleration-video.htmlor ... http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-north-american-head-not-totally-convinced-recalls-fully-address-unintended-acceleration-problems.htmlor ...http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/24/hill-hearings-resume-expected-toyoda-apology/

"We pursued growth over the speed at which we were able to develop our people and our organization," he said. "I regret that this has resulted in the safety issues described in the recalls we face today, and I am deeply sorry for any accidents that Toyota drivers have experienced. … " Akio Toyoda

One more just for fun ... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/japan-has-a-soft-spot-for-teary-eyed-executives/article1481221/

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

What a bunch of biased garbage...“Other vehicle manufacturers have gone to great extremes [to prevent the problem he found on Toyotas],” he said. His tests on GM cars did not find a similar flaw, he said, “not even close.” What the hell does GM have anything to do with this? Why do people keep trying to compare just those the two?GM probably sabotaged Toyota (or its suppliers) to try to cash in on this mess.

[Vapour Trails]

Toyota should look at the bright side, their vehicles finally went fast.

[Corey]

This certainly smells like a witch hunt to me. Toyota has definitely missed something in their design but it seems like everyone is just jumping on the bandwagon to attack them. A lot of the accounts don't make sense for a stuck throttle. There's some driver error involved that people are trying to cover up.I wish I were in the market for a Toyota right now, I'm guessing one could get a healthy discount. Your chances of having an incident are very small and most readers here would have the confidence to stand on the brakes with authority if the throttle did stick.

[Need my Focusin]

This certainly smells like a witch hunt to me. Toyota has definitely missed something in their design but it seems like everyone is just jumping on the bandwagon to attack them. QUOTE]I think it is called applied marketing.

[Art]

There's some driver error involved..

No doubt ... but I believe it's a reasonable expectation for a car to slow down when you lift your foot from the gas pedal and slow down even quicker when you push on the brake pedal. Beyond that I think we're entering into the area of driver ignorance rather than error.

[Corey]

Where is the line drawn between "thorough investigation" and "witch hunt"?

It's definitely a fine line. Don't get me wrong - Toyota screwed up big time and is paying dearly for it. If they missed a possible failure mode that caused all of this then that was a terrible mistake that they need to be very diligent to not repeat. If they made a conscious decision to save money on a system that they knew would fail in a small percentage of vehicles then they deserve to be strung up. But' date=' lets not string them up just in case...

No doubt ... but I believe it's a reasonable expectation for a car to slow down when you lift your foot from the gas pedal and slow down even quicker when you push on the brake pedal. Beyond that I think we're entering into the area of driver ignorance rather than error.

Very well said! I prefer 'driver ignorance' over 'driver error' now that you put it that way.

[Hard Dog]

I guess a benefit of having this happen in Manitoba is that your Toyota will run out of gas somewhere in Saskatchewan before you really need to stop..... Some of the testimonies are pretty funny! My favourite is "I prayed and the 'Hand of God' reached down and removed the stuck floor mat from behind the gas pedal"

[conebasher]

See, my Boxster has this little programming where when you apply the brake, it cuts the gas-so simple and effective.

[Art]

See' date=' my Boxster has this little programming where when you apply the brake, it cuts the gas-so simple and effective.[/quote'].... and the fear of all the competitive left-foot brakers is that this issue with Toyota will make it mandatory equipment in all vehicles .... much like the Explorer/Firestone issue lead to mandatory tire pressure monitors in new vehicles.

[Brian_Earl_Spilner]

I have the solution!They could use a device called a "cable" to control the device which lets the air into the engine! So that when the driver lets off the accelerator, the engine is starved of air, and ceases to rev any higher! It would be a much simpler system than all these stupid computers, and would likely be far more reliable!Man, I'm so full of awesome ideas.Oh wait...

[cgedwards]

See' date=' my Boxster has this little programming where when you apply the brake, it cuts the gas-so simple and effective.[/quote'] Sounds great in theory. However, I'm sure the computer in the Toyotas already has some programming that goes something like "When accelerator pedal sensor indicates 0% set throttle to idle.” If it is a weird computer/software glitch that it causing the problem that indicates to me that the above instruction is being ignored. If that is the case why does anyone think that it would not also ignore the “When brake pedal sensor is > 0% set throttle to idle” command as well. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against adding such checks and balances. But thinking that adding more code to an already complex system will make it more reliable is incorrect. Complex systems do strange things. The easiest way to make them more reliable is to simplify them or eliminate them all together.

[Shawn]

I have the solution! They could use a device called a "cable" to control the device which lets the air into the engine! So that when the driver lets off the accelerator' date=' the engine is starved of air, and ceases to rev any higher! It would be a much simpler system than all these stupid computers, and would likely be far more reliable! Man, I'm so full of awesome ideas. Oh wait...[/quote']I had a car that had a cable operated throttle that ended up sticking open...curiously it too was a Toyota (1981 Toyota Corona to be exact).

[yofa]

well, if we are to trust the current recalls, it's centered around the mechanical stiction. either the floor mat, or the mechanism that provides the pedal feel wearing away and overcoming the light springs that usually come with electronic throttles. either way, mechanical issues rather than electronic ones.but it's worth exploring the theory that a short between the throttle and pedal signals, plus a surge in the throttle command could lead to a wide-open throttle with no fault condition, although that would be quite a string of mishaps.