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Corey

July 21 autocross

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So many cones getting hit! That wasn't our intention while setting it up. I was cringing during the first run group: cone, cone, two cones, cone, etc! 

I had fun, but didn't get video of my fastest run. Here's my 5th, just a couple tenths slower than my fastest: 

 

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Posted (edited)

I'll add the cone hits remarks with 2 vidoes of cones getting clobbered.

Huge thanks to Grant for letting me learn first hand the answer is always Miata.

 

Grant's best scratch run: 57.7+1

(Warning very wobbly video, don't mount your Go-Pro on the trunk lid folks) 

 

My best scratch time, 55.5 +3.

 

 

 

Edited by Magner
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Posted (edited)

Here's my fastest time 56.338. 

Not very happy with the first half and didn't take the line I wanted going back through the wall.

I really like this course, simple and fun.

 

 

 

Edited by Jason
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Posted (edited)

Continuing number of runs from previous discussion...

23 hours ago, MRS Joe said:

Based on Canadian solo standards 4 runs are what qualify for the championship. I’d expect any runs above that to be bonus fun runs built into the event.

In the Scca format you only get three runs.  It’s to put that much more weight on getting your run in your head during the course walks and learning to navigate the course. Once you do it more then a few times it just becomes a simple race course and the whole mental aspect goes by the wayside.  

Thats my two cents.  I don’t care either way as I’m more likely to get a clean run with more attempts  :pop2:

 

How does everyone like the 5 runs format? Personally, from what I heard at the event is generally positive, while it doesn't stick with Canadian solo standard or SCCA format, is it fair to say the extra run will only give everyone a fair advantage in our local competition? It give the chance for novice and intermediate lever drivers to get better quicker, maybe it could be another reason to push harder for the first couple runs and aim for precision later, or maybe use the extra run during first run as a light-speed course walk to learn all elements in your car seating perspective?
This is like a mini election here, everyone read this post please vote if we should keep or scrap the 5 runs format, your voice will be heard and let's make this a collective decision here to best fit everyone. The way I see it, most of us are there to have fun and of course to compete, and at the end of the day, I think it is the fun part that keeps most of us coming back, not so much for the competing part, and having an extra guarantee run in my opinion, will be appreciated by many.

 

Edited by helix

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Posted (edited)

Here's my fastest clean run, I've bleeped out my swears :P stupid bumps...

 

Edited by tatawaki
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I'm in favor of 5 runs. The biggest issue I have with autocross is the amount of time spent relative to the amount of racing you get to do. Even adding one run helps justify the outing for those of us with a scarcity of time. Fun runs aren't quite the same, certainly with respect to the level of seriousness employed.

I'd like to suggest that 3 runs at SCCA Nationals is a practical move to get through the massive number of cars racing.

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I love seeing the other run videos!  Cool.  

I'm torn on the # of runs.  SCCA Nationals is the gold standard of the sport.  I heard a fast driver say something like: "Anyone can be fast in 10 runs, I can be fast in 2."  But, more runs = more fun for not a lot longer on site.  

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3 hours ago, Corey said:

I love seeing the other run videos!  Cool.  

I'm torn on the # of runs.  SCCA Nationals is the gold standard of the sport.  I heard a fast driver say something like: "Anyone can be fast in 10 runs, I can be fast in 2."  But, more runs = more fun for not a lot longer on site.  

"Anyone can be fast in 10 runs" ? … uh, not really.  Believe it or not, between broken asphalt and timing gremlins, I managed to get in 7 runs.  

Did I improve with each run? - you bet.  Was I fast? - nope.  Based on my rate of improvement, I would guesstimate it would take me 15 runs to get "fast".

Obviously my vote is for the most runs we can squeeze into a day.

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The second phase I have in mind for the group as I have already mentioned to some of you, will be to start 30 mins earlier. Depending where you live, most of us have experienced waking up at least another 30mins earlier in order to join a Gimli event, not to mention the extra 30mins drive on the way back. Ultimately, I would like to see run group #1 to start at 10am with registration starting 8:30am instead of 9am. That way most of us will have a better chance to utilize the remaining 1/2 day with family and friends.

After some consideration, I think having runs beyond 5 per event isn't practical to majority of us due to:
1) extra tire wear could result more than 1 set of tires per season,
2) longer run time per group removed the chance of ending event early making it whole day event might be attractive at first but likely to be too much if we keep at it, not to mentioned the work group will be out in the sun or rain for an extended period of time at once; breaking 6 runs in 2 groups of 3 runs is feasible, however we will waste ~15 mins or more combined to switching run groups, thus removing the benefit of a compressed schedule,
3) if we ever get an event group of 45+, have 6 runs will be impractical for reasons listed in #2
4) running 5 runs or 6 runs depending on number of participants sounds unfair and disappointing to me especially if you think about working longer with less track time...

My thoughts is that 5 runs per event is very close to optimal, given ample room for delays and issues if encountered while keeping everything in check for a early afternoon dismissal.

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7 hours ago, helix said:

The second phase I have in mind for the group as I have already mentioned to some of you, will be to start 30 mins earlier. Depending where you live, most of us have experienced waking up at least another 30mins earlier in order to join a Gimli event, not to mention the extra 30mins drive on the way back. Ultimately, I would like to see run group #1 to start at 10am with registration starting 8:30am instead of 9am. That way most of us will have a better chance to utilize the remaining 1/2 day with family and friends.

After some consideration, I think having runs beyond 5 per event isn't practical to majority of us due to:
1) extra tire wear could result more than 1 set of tires per season,
2) longer run time per group removed the chance of ending event early making it whole day event might be attractive at first but likely to be too much if we keep at it, not to mentioned the work group will be out in the sun or rain for an extended period of time at once; breaking 6 runs in 2 groups of 3 runs is feasible, however we will waste ~15 mins or more combined to switching run groups, thus removing the benefit of a compressed schedule,
3) if we ever get an event group of 45+, have 6 runs will be impractical for reasons listed in #2
4) running 5 runs or 6 runs depending on number of participants sounds unfair and disappointing to me especially if you think about working longer with less track time...

My thoughts is that 5 runs per event is very close to optimal, given ample room for delays and issues if encountered while keeping everything in check for a early afternoon dismissal.

Great summary of the pros and cons for changing the schedule and number of runs!

Can you elaborate on step #4.  I'm not sure I understand why it would be unfair or disappointing. 

I'll still keep my vote for 5 runs with a schedule that opens at 8:30 AM and first run group goes out at 10:00 AM.

Thanks Helix ... keep up the good work!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Weebly said:

Great summary of the pros and cons for changing the schedule and number of runs!

Can you elaborate on step #4.  I'm not sure I understand why it would be unfair or disappointing. 

I'll still keep my vote for 5 runs with a schedule that opens at 8:30 AM and first run group goes out at 10:00 AM.

Thanks Helix ... keep up the good work!

Thanks Brian, I am trying to help and sorry for the ambiguity from previous post. 

For #4, if say there are only 40 attendees, running 6 runs per event will take ~4.24hrs, and if the next event have like 50 attendees, 6 runs will add roughly an hour to the day without considering safety factors for hiccups which is somewhat direct-proportional to # of attendees, and slightly longer day if going for 5 runs in a 50 attendees event making it kinda unfair, work longer and race less.

(# of attendee) x (# of runs) x (estimated mins per run) / (mins per hour) = (hours per event from group A start to group B ends without 30min lunch break)
40ppl x 5runsperevent x 1.06minperrunperperson / 60minsperhr = 3.53 hrsperevent
40ppl x 6runsperevent x 1.06minperrunperperson / 60minsperhr = 4.24 hrsperevent
50ppl x 5runsperevent x 1.06minperrunperperson / 60minsperhr = 4.42 hrsperevent
50ppl x 6runsperevent x 1.06minperrunperperson / 60minsperhr = 5.30 hrsperevent
60ppl x 5runsperevent x 1.06minperrunperperson / 60minsperhr = 5.30 hrsperevent
60ppl x 6runsperevent x 1.06minperrunperperson / 60minsperhr = 6.36 hrsperevent

Risk factors such as, technical difficulty with timing, weather, car breakdown on track, longer lunch service, ...etc, and most risks are proportional to number of attendees.
#4 is pure assumption and opinion of mine based on my estimate, if we can run constantly at 5 runs with ~40 ppl event sticking to the planned schedule and with time to spare, we can surely consider going for 6 runs in 2 groups of 3 runs thereafter.

Edited by helix
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17 hours ago, Corey said:

I heard a fast driver say something like: "Anyone can be fast in 10 runs, I can be fast in 2." 

Sounds like a fun guy to have around. 

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Thanks Helix, for the detailed explanation regarding point #4.

Maybe, like someone said earlier, the number of runs should be proportional to the number of entrants.  I guess that's why heavily attended events (Nationals) can only offer 3 runs.

Maybe we should be happy with four runs if we can maintain a 40 or more entrants for all our events.

I think I can speak for everyone when I say "we really appreciate your efforts!"

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8 hours ago, The Contrarian said:

Sounds like a fun guy to have around. 

And I could probably score more touchdowns if basketball nets were bigger. But that's a different game then. 

:P

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Personally, the more seat time I can get the better. I'm secretly very competitive so any extra second I can get behind the wheel allows me to get one second more of experience to try and close the gap between myself and the experienced drivers. However I totally understand why its important to put more emphasis into each individual run.

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21 hours ago, The Contrarian said:

Sounds like a fun guy to have around. 

If it's any consolation, I only need 1 run for FTD. But I'm still pretty fun to be around.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Brian_Earl_Spilner said:

If it's any consolation, I only need 1 run for FTD. But I'm still pretty fun to be around.

Looking forward to meet you! Do you take ppl to ride along?

Edited by helix

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13 minutes ago, helix said:

Looking forward to meet you! Do you take ppl to ride along?

Only if they're really smokin' hot chicks.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Brian_Earl_Spilner said:

Only if they're really smokin' hot chicks.

I look good in a deep V floral Romper, does that qualify?. I want your magical FTD experience Kosta.

Edited by tatawaki
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4 hours ago, tatawaki said:

I look good in a deep V floral Romper

I can confirm this. Kosta, take him up on his offer! 

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7 hours ago, tatawaki said:

I look good in a deep V floral Romper, does that qualify?. I want your magical FTD experience Kosta.

 

2 hours ago, Corey said:

I can confirm this. Kosta, take him up on his offer! 

I'll only be impressed if Jeremy wears it while driving Buttercup.

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Posted (edited)

I’ve been looking at many regions and they do heats where first 3 runs count and the second 3 later are fun. 

I think from the perspective of growing the sport an additional run may help grow the sport locally with additional seat time, and it can be upto the schools and instructors to emphasize the importance of getting it done in less if intending to go elsewhere.  

Edited by MRS Joe
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Helix, did we ever manage to upload our timing results to Axti.me?

Can't find Sunday results for WSCC.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Weebly said:

Helix, did we ever manage to upload our timing results to Axti.me?

Can't find Sunday results for WSCC.

Results has to be uploaded at the end of the event each time, I had to leave half day and that might have been missed by run group 2 timing, I did browse the live result on my cell phone on Sunday and so it is in my browser history, here you go.
I think we can still post the result later on with the timing laptop, one of us will have that syn to online result later on.
http://live.axti.me/live/55126306d4db9e0e00a12aa1/5d3473ef68af12d418e753bf

Edited by helix
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Posted (edited)

The results start with 2nd place, there's no first.

Maybe we don't even need any runs, 1st place will be awarded to the best course walker. You're fast in 2 runs? I was fast during the course walk! 

Edited by The Contrarian

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On 7/26/2019 at 8:23 AM, The Contrarian said:

Maybe we don't even need any runs, 1st place will be awarded to the best course walker. You're fast in 2 runs? I was fast during the course walk

Username checks out. :P

In all seriousness, I'm sorry about the results. We're sorting through them to see what's going on. Maintaining competition purity is a primary goal for us, and it all starts with the results. 

I'll let everyone know once this is resolved. 

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I like the dialog going on here. The people and their ideas in this club are what make the WSCC Autoslalom program unique in a good way.

My thoughts on the multiple runs. 

In a single driver car, 5 runs is fine. In a codriven car 10 runs back-to-back is too many. At the last event our tires got greasy after the 4th runs and that was with a sprayer. You don't want to know what my oil temp was at!

What I would propose is go to 6 runs and don't move the start time. In this format, do 3 runs with Group A, hot swap marshals, do 3 runs with Group B. Break for lunch. Change course or not, don't really care at St Andrews (see below). Gimli, change the course. Finish lunch, do 3 runs Group B, hot swap marshals, do 3 runs Group A, clean up, go home. Things should still be done before 4pm and gives cars and people time to cool off between heats. Swapping run order helps to counter balance any weather effects that may roll in. At St Andrews, the second set of 3 runs become fun runs. At Gimli, the second set is another event. 

There are pros and cons to changing vs not changing the course at St Andrews. I don't think there is enough usable real estate there for us to make rapid and safe lunch time course changes. I will leave that final decision to our Course Chief. Plus it lets people bench race and discuss lines over lunch and then go test them after eating. 

Further, if we don't change the course at St Andrews at the lunch that may promote more car swapping, fewer people lost to lunch course walks, and teaching like we used to have which was sooooo much fun! I know personally I would likely not want to drive the Vette in the second half and would seek a codrive for that portion, just to change it up a bit. 

If time allows, can move to 4 and 4 once we see how the swaps go. More than 4 runs though in a codriven car simply are not worth it, things get too hot...unless it rains, then things change, but we can't plan for rain at every event. 

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2 hours ago, justkickin said:

I like the dialog going on here. The people and their ideas in this club are what make the WSCC Autoslalom program unique in a good way.

My thoughts on the multiple runs. 

In a single driver car, 5 runs is fine. In a codriven car 10 runs back-to-back is too many. At the last event our tires got greasy after the 4th runs and that was with a sprayer. You don't want to know what my oil temp was at!

What I would propose is go to 6 runs and don't move the start time. In this format, do 3 runs with Group A, hot swap marshals, do 3 runs with Group B. Break for lunch. Change course or not, don't really care at St Andrews (see below). Gimli, change the course. Finish lunch, do 3 runs Group B, hot swap marshals, do 3 runs Group A, clean up, go home. Things should still be done before 4pm and gives cars and people time to cool off between heats. Swapping run order helps to counter balance any weather effects that may roll in. At St Andrews, the second set of 3 runs become fun runs. At Gimli, the second set is another event. 

There are pros and cons to changing vs not changing the course at St Andrews. I don't think there is enough usable real estate there for us to make rapid and safe lunch time course changes. I will leave that final decision to our Course Chief. Plus it lets people bench race and discuss lines over lunch and then go test them after eating. 

Further, if we don't change the course at St Andrews at the lunch that may promote more car swapping, fewer people lost to lunch course walks, and teaching like we used to have which was sooooo much fun! I know personally I would likely not want to drive the Vette in the second half and would seek a codrive for that portion, just to change it up a bit. 

If time allows, can move to 4 and 4 once we see how the swaps go. More than 4 runs though in a codriven car simply are not worth it, things get too hot...unless it rains, then things change, but we can't plan for rain at every event. 

I really like this idea especially for those who are newer. I would personally enjoy being able to get more runs in and the lunch break bench racing would probably make for some pretty good entertainment in the afternoon. Maybe try that line you didn't get a chance to or thought was a little risky etc. 

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On 8/2/2019 at 8:16 PM, justkickin said:

I like the dialog going on here. The people and their ideas in this club are what make the WSCC Autoslalom program unique in a good way.

My thoughts on the multiple runs. 

In a single driver car, 5 runs is fine. In a codriven car 10 runs back-to-back is too many. At the last event our tires got greasy after the 4th runs and that was with a sprayer. You don't want to know what my oil temp was at!

What I would propose is go to 6 runs and don't move the start time. In this format, do 3 runs with Group A, hot swap marshals, do 3 runs with Group B. Break for lunch. Change course or not, don't really care at St Andrews (see below). Gimli, change the course. Finish lunch, do 3 runs Group B, hot swap marshals, do 3 runs Group A, clean up, go home. Things should still be done before 4pm and gives cars and people time to cool off between heats. Swapping run order helps to counter balance any weather effects that may roll in. At St Andrews, the second set of 3 runs become fun runs. At Gimli, the second set is another event. 

There are pros and cons to changing vs not changing the course at St Andrews. I don't think there is enough usable real estate there for us to make rapid and safe lunch time course changes. I will leave that final decision to our Course Chief. Plus it lets people bench race and discuss lines over lunch and then go test them after eating. 

Further, if we don't change the course at St Andrews at the lunch that may promote more car swapping, fewer people lost to lunch course walks, and teaching like we used to have which was sooooo much fun! I know personally I would likely not want to drive the Vette in the second half and would seek a codrive for that portion, just to change it up a bit. 

If time allows, can move to 4 and 4 once we see how the swaps go. More than 4 runs though in a codriven car simply are not worth it, things get too hot...unless it rains, then things change, but we can't plan for rain at every event. 

Last time we have 5 consecutive runs on event #7, personally I think trying new things on a Saturday is easier and given we have a slightly smaller group tomorrow, let's try the 6 runs tomorrow at event #8 and possibly in event #9 as well, then get people feedback before making any extended event schedule official. If we were to adopt the 6 runs format above and keeping score for the first set of 3 runs, we can definitely stress the importance of course walk to all attendees.

Assuming we felt 6 runs on a Sunday is too much, what about we do 6 runs format for all Saturday's events, and 5 runs for Sunday? That way we can limit the long day schedule only on a Saturday, attract co-drive, and stress importance of course walk, and lunch break bench race at the same time; while keeping Sunday ends earlier, and give everyone an advantage of the 2 extra runs that count towards championship?

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