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helix

2019 AX Event 6 and 7 discussion

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Please share your thoughts of this double events at Gimli, sharing videos of your runs is always appreciated!

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Posted (edited)

I liked the double event format but would prefer if we able to finish earlier. Makes for a long day, but well worth it.

Based on the number of DNF runs, I would say the course visuals could be improved for future Gimli events. Sometimes with so much open area, it's easy to get lost in the  woods. (It's a great problem to have)

 

My best From Event 6:

 

Rob's Best from Event 7:

 

My Best from Event 7:

 

Edited by Magner

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Posted (edited)

forgot to record event 7 (thank god! lol) here's my clean run from Event 6

 

Edited by tatawaki
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My fastest recorded run for event 6: 

My fastest for event 7: 

I'm pretty surprised at the low G-numbers! I need to start looking into some street tires to fit my car. Hoosiers just don't work well on our surfaces.  

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I felt like a rookie out there on event 6 when I was forgetting about a couple of the gates for the first two runs. I should have pulled a Jeremy and stopped on course... haha. But it was great to be back out there again, and see the old school guys.

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My fastest for event 6

 

Grant's best run for event 6

 

My fastest recorded for event 7

 

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Both courses were pretty fun and very challenging. I agree with Chris on making improvements to the course layout to make the course easier to read. During event #7 I've watched a number of people keep missing the same gate every run. 

Big thanks to Rob for some great pointers! 

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Posted (edited)

Some observations:
- Obvious: Courses were fun to drive. Great job team! Patience and line selection were key in both courses.
- Ideally which I know you guys already know this but it should be simple enough to follow without a course walk (more for rookies)

There was a HUGE safety concern for me and spectators at Event 6 AND 7:
1) Rookies/people new to the sport need to be aware/REMINDED (sometimes repeatedly)  of where timing starts and STOPS in the drivers meeting/rookie course walk/etc. Perhaps understand that there is a 'stop box' area before entering the pits where you should be at PIT speed.
2) Understand that pit is walking/jogging speed ONLY. REMIND Them of spectators, children! and poor three legged puppies with a doggy wheelchair with square wheels. 
If I took two steps backwards to read the time I would have been hit at over 80km/h at the STOP BOX. I don't blame the drivers as they didn't know. I educated them swiftly.

 

Edited by tatawaki
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Just reading Tatawaki's comment...

At every Autoslalom in Europe there is a Stop Box at the end of the run. If the race car does not completely stop for the duration of (usually) five seconds (most organizations require you to hold the driver door open, or stick your arms out of your open cockpit racer), the car is being disqualified for the entire event (not just this particular run, but all runs). Meaning that the driver does not get to line up anymore for any subsequent runs. This is a very effective deterrent to anyone who intentionally disregards safety rules. It even helps the driver pumped up on adrenaline to calm down. It also allows your brain to "reset" and view speeds realistically again.

However, if introduced this rule must be clearly stated in the driver meeting. After the first two or three people are being disqualified and shut down for the event, everybody will start heeding the enforced stop, and the pit entrance becomes a much safer area.

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If we put 2 90 degree turns right before the spot where you get your time and treat it like the starting box where cones still count I doubt anyone would be going very quick entering the pit area. This would probably only work in Gimli though.

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I remember back during the RRX days, we had a stop cone in the stop box. But I don't remember if it was a cone penalty or a DQ. I do remember having to slow down before the finish in order to stop in time before the cone... lol.

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1 hour ago, grail said:

I remember back during the RRX days, we had a stop cone in the stop box. But I don't remember if it was a cone penalty or a DQ. I do remember having to slow down before the finish in order to stop in time before the cone... lol.

IIRC it was a 5 second cone :)

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Oh man, let's not go back to those days of stop boxes. 

The vast majority of the drivers were able to follow instructions the first time. We'll keep educating people. 

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I liked this double header format. Some great comments above. I would like to see a quad weekend with a double on Saturday and Sunday. Changing the course midway through the day was not as time consuming as I thought it would be. Makes for a long day for the food vendor though. I am thinking we just get them for the between event break in the future. 

One thing I did hear is we should do these double event days in June and September as that is a long time to be in the summer sun and heat. I have to agree. By my third run in the second event my brain was done and I was having a hard time staying focused on what I was doing. Not a terrible problem to have, but something worth considering. 

The second course was much easier to follow without the cross overs. Didn't like some of the tighter elements we introduced (i.e., the start) but it was a lot of fun. Really enjoyed sweepers and only having one or two slaloms per course and never doing the same slalom twice in one run. The capability to design courses with braking and acceleration zones throughout made for some fun and challenging courses that really rewarded looking ahead, or punished not looking ahead.

Would I do another, hell yeah! Even if it was 30 degrees. 

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I hated stop boxes, let's not go back to those. There was not a lot of space between the stop lights and where the stop worker was standing. I had to get on the brakes so hard that my splitter dragged on the ground. I found both courses to be very, very difficult to read and looking ahead didn't seem to help because it was a sea of cones. I couldn't see the entrance to some of the elements until I was up on them.  The car felt good, though

 

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Thanks to everyone for the hard work this weekend! I think that this double header was a success.  :clap2:

 

Suggestions/changes I thought about:

1- start event 1 at 10am. 

2- skip lunch break between heats. Have a 10 minute change over. 

3- have the lunch between events during changeover. 

4- start 2nd event at 2:45. 

5- same as with first event have a ten min change over between heats.

With our events having about 40 cars with the crossover release at about 45 seconds  is roughly 2.5 hrs with the break.  

2nd event should end at 5:15 allowing for a better departure time. 

This also may allow fun runs post second event should they be wanted before cleanup.  

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It was great to see old friends (read into that what you like  :D), and see alot of new faces. Seems like the BRZ/FR-S/86 is taking over from the Miata/S2000. 

Looked like a tone of fun out there. Great to see wide open courses with big sweepers.

Proper job, everyone! :canada:

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On 7/8/2019 at 11:09 AM, Jason said:

My fastest for event 6

 

Grant's best run for event 6

 

My fastest recorded for event 7

 

Didn't think I would enjoy the camera view on the helmet that much but to a person that is not on the track that day, see it in this perspective depicted the course the best! 

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I agree with Joe’s timeline for the double header. I would have stuck around for the second event if it could have ended sooner.  At least for Sunday double headers.

I would also like to see a condensed single event at St. Andrews one day. I think no lunch and a quick turn around between run groups would be nice on occasion. Get some racing in and still have most of the afternoon to hang with the family. 

Just a thought

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Posted (edited)

A quick turn around and skipping lunch would save us 30 mins max. when compare to current schedule structure.

Let's try the compressed schedule starting next event, Event #8, and instead taking the lunch break out, I would like reduce course walk timing from 1hr 45mins to 1hr 15mins. I would think the course walk is set to 1hr 45mins for a reason, however, I will impose this new compressed schedule for event 8 if no objection is raised.

Also note the registration hours is also reduced to 45mins (Check in and registration closed at 9:45am)

Pending executive decision, I think with this compressed schedule, it is possible to keep up to  6 runs per event instead of 4 runs. Let's see a show of hands of how many participants like additional runs, 5 runs or 6 runs?

Edited by helix
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HI All,

My son and I attended event 6.  We were registered for both but only because the registration system put me on a waitlist so I registered for both, even though I intended to only attend one event.  Then the system took my payment for both.  So, there went $50 (me and the co-driver).  Anyways, my son and I both had four straight DNF's.  Partly because we got to the track too late for more than 2 walks, partly because it was a very complex setup for a rookie.  I have a thought that will probably get filed under "dumb-rookie-ideas" but I am wondering if it wouldn't work to use two colours of cone?  The tracks in Gimli and St Andrews are both long and narrow.  In both cases the course is usually in an out and back layout.  If heading out was one colour and heading back was another, it would seem to be much clearer to the driver where the route is as the cones cross from one side of the track to the other.  Maybe I'm wrong, just a thought.  My point is, I don't think the sport is premised on making the track deliberately hard to interpret/navigation, I think the sport is premised on driving skill, so helpful navigation doesn't undermine the core of the sport.  

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On 7/12/2019 at 5:17 PM, Ron Janzen said:

HI All,

My son and I attended event 6.  We were registered for both but only because the registration system put me on a waitlist so I registered for both, even though I intended to only attend one event.  Then the system took my payment for both.  So, there went $50 (me and the co-driver).  Anyways, my son and I both had four straight DNF's.  Partly because we got to the track too late for more than 2 walks, partly because it was a very complex setup for a rookie.  I have a thought that will probably get filed under "dumb-rookie-ideas" but I am wondering if it wouldn't work to use two colours of cone?  The tracks in Gimli and St Andrews are both long and narrow.  In both cases the course is usually in an out and back layout.  If heading out was one colour and heading back was another, it would seem to be much clearer to the driver where the route is as the cones cross from one side of the track to the other.  Maybe I'm wrong, just a thought.  My point is, I don't think the sport is premised on making the track deliberately hard to interpret/navigation, I think the sport is premised on driving skill, so helpful navigation doesn't undermine the core of the sport.  

@Ron Janzen Are you saying you were charged for both events? Just want to clarify so that we can make sure you have a proper credit in the system which we can take care of quickly.

I have been to events with multiple colors, sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. We learned a lot from that morning course setup and we will attempt to make things less complicated when we have that much space to play with. 

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Hi, thanks.  Yes, I was charged for both events.  I think by accepting the wait list for both it automatically charged me for both.  I assumed that going on the waitlist would give a notification and then a request to confirm payment, but it didn't.  Luke and me attend Event 6 and then left, before the start of 7.  

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Can you list out yours and your son's membership numbers? I will issue a credit on the 2 accounts with an event credits for you.

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On 7/12/2019 at 3:18 PM, helix said:

A quick turn around and skipping lunch would save us 30 mins max. when compare to current schedule structure.

Let's try the compressed schedule starting next event, Event #8, and instead taking the lunch break out, I would like reduce course walk timing from 1hr 45mins to 1hr 15mins. I would think the course walk is set to 1hr 45mins for a reason, however, I will impose this new compressed schedule for event 8 if no objection is raised.

Also note the registration hours is also reduced to 45mins (Check in and registration closed at 9:45am)

Pending executive decision, I think with this compressed schedule, it is possible to keep up to  6 runs per event instead of 4 runs. Let's see a show of hands of how many participants like additional runs, 5 runs or 6 runs?

6 runs would be great!

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Posted (edited)

Why at Gimli with so much space are the course starts still 90 degree turns?

Let's have some cars launch hard, generate some smoke and excitement like the old days. These kinked starts are such a buzzkill.

Edited by The Contrarian

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, The Contrarian said:

Why at Gimli with so much space are the course starts still 90 degree turns?

Let's have some cars launch hard, generate some smoke and excitement like the old days. These kinked starts are such a buzzkill.

 

Yeah, I also like the sound of squealing tires and the smell of burning rubber and fried clutch plates … but just not on my car.

The decision to go with a sharp-turn start was made by consensus last year after receiving complaints of “drag-strip” starts favouring the high HP cars. There was also a concern that these repetitive hard launches would result in accelerated (pun intended) wear on tires and clutches, thereby making Autoslalom less cost friendly. Not to mention snapping a half-shaft totally ruining your day.

We had some hard-core competitors circumvent the 90° starts last year by crawling up to within a few feet of the timing lights, come to a stop, and then engage “launch control”. This achieved the desired burnout but did little for the elapsed time. To each their own.

Glad to see you’re signed up for the Sunday event and maybe the course designer will come up with a compromise that will allow you to have your cake and smoke it too!

Edited by Weebly
typo

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7 hours ago, The Contrarian said:

Why at Gimli with so much space are the course starts still 90 degree turns?

Let's have some cars launch hard, generate some smoke and excitement like the old days. These kinked starts are such a buzzkill.

Actually the 90 degree turn is the standard start at any National level autox event. If you want the drag starts look up Pro Solo...now that is incredible. Alas, lots big enough for that are hard to find in Canada, we just don't have the Stadium style parking lots that the USA has. Did Pro Solo once, might do it again in Lincoln.

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On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 3:18 PM, helix said:

A quick turn around and skipping lunch would save us 30 mins max. when compare to current schedule structure.

Let's try the compressed schedule starting next event, Event #8, and instead taking the lunch break out, I would like reduce course walk timing from 1hr 45mins to 1hr 15mins. I would think the course walk is set to 1hr 45mins for a reason, however, I will impose this new compressed schedule for event 8 if no objection is raised.

Also note the registration hours is also reduced to 45mins (Check in and registration closed at 9:45am)

Pending executive decision, I think with this compressed schedule, it is possible to keep up to  6 runs per event instead of 4 runs. Let's see a show of hands of how many participants like additional runs, 5 runs or 6 runs?

 

Hmm, only one reply to this question?  I thought there were a lot of people suggesting changes to our schedule.  Anyways, here’s my two cents:

I would favour a somewhat compressed schedule with an earlier start time.

I like the idea of six runs but would prefer it be split to two sets of three runs.  Seems like a long time to be standing in the hot sun for six continuous runs.

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6 hours ago, Weebly said:

 

Hmm, only one reply to this question?  I thought there were a lot of people suggesting changes to our schedule.  Anyways, here’s my two cents:

I would favour a somewhat compressed schedule with an earlier start time.

I like the idea of six runs but would prefer it be split to two sets of three runs.  Seems like a long time to be standing in the hot sun for six continuous runs.

Might not get to 6 per events but maybe a mid-ground of 5 runs per event count towards the championship? Also, starting earlier by 30 mins is what I hope to do next, will first need to better inform the regulars before switching to the 30mins earlier start time and I would apply to St. Andrews events.

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