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Ianfromduff

2019 supplimentrary rules scrapped.

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Hey everyone.

 

I think it's an understatement to say we have received a lot of feedback on our supplimentrary rules both positive and negative. We cannot ignore tho that the majority are against the supplimentrary rules.

 

With the feedback given we have decided to scrap the 2019 supplimentrary rulebook written and continue running under the asn national scoring classing system.

 

While we received many different views and had very healthy discussions about the pros and cons of both classing types it would be irresponsible of Brooke and I to force in a rulebook that is not in favor of the majority of time attack.

However the last thing wewant to do is stop the discussion. Time attack is the fastest growing form of motorsports and is still very young compared to all the other disciplines. With the brand new formation of the North American Time Attack council reprisenting all levels of timeattack its will be very interesting what the future holds. We are all participating in a very import period for time attack and should all be proud of being a part of such a new and amazing discipline. 

 

Thank you all for your feedback and discussion.

 

See you all in 2019.

 

Ian and Brooke

 

 

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If we are going to stay with pax, maybe we should work on making it work better.  Making sure every car is classed properly would be a start. How about:

-Making every competitor provide their classing sheet and make it publicly available (like road race does)

-If a car seems to not be classed correctly or there are issues, get Ontario Time Attack to approve it

-Encourage dyno sheets/car weighing for improved classing

-Have a committee/group available for assisting people with classing their cars

Edited by 84TurboSupra
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What I ran into last year was I had to re-class my car for every event.  Most of your younger car enthusiasts who come out to the track modify their vehicles as they get the funds to, myself included.  My car went up a couple classes and then down once weighed causing a bit of a nightmare for Ian and Brooke to keep track of my score based off pax times.  This is why I was in favor of going to new rules that went by tire size and weight.  Pax is utterly confusing to new people getting into it and makes a lot of work when you're trying to be fair to yourself and other competitors by being in the right class and trying to modify your vehicle to be more reliable at the track once you've started coming out regularly.

That has been my experience with pax.  Regardless of what classing system is used I'm just doing what I think is best with the next project car.

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3 hours ago, 84TurboSupra said:

 

-Making every competitor provide their classing sheet and make it publicly available (like road race does)

Classing sheets will be requested this year along with track inspections. This is something that hasn't been done consistently in the past unlike the roadracing side of things. 

3 hours ago, 84TurboSupra said:

-If a car seems to not be classed correctly or there are issues, get Ontario Time Attack to approve it

Looking into something similar without bringing in the ota

3 hours ago, 84TurboSupra said:

-Encourage dyno sheets/car weighing for improved classing

Car weighing is always encouraged. Scales are at the track on race weekends and free to use for competitors. Dyno sheets are a bit harder to get but deffinately a way better option for classing calculations.

3 hours ago, 84TurboSupra said:

-Have a committee/group available for assisting people with classing their cars

This is something that will probably happen for all items related to time attack not just classing where ALL competitors get a fair vote on changes being made within the program. 

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4 minutes ago, A_Revs said:

What I ran into last year was I had to re-class my car for every event.  Most of your younger car enthusiasts who come out to the track modify their vehicles as they get the funds to, myself included.  My car went up a couple classes and then down once weighed causing a bit of a nightmare for Ian and Brooke to keep track of my score based off pax times.  This is why I was in favor of going to new rules that went by tire size and weight.  Pax is utterly confusing to new people getting into it and makes a lot of work when you're trying to be fair to yourself and other competitors by being in the right class and trying to modify your vehicle to be more reliable at the track once you've started coming out regularly.

That has been my experience with pax.  Regardless of what classing system is used I'm just doing what I think is best with the next project car.

Toyo r888r tires and as wide as you can get them is probably the best solution to winning haha. To bad they are so costly

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34 minutes ago, Ianfromduff said:

Classing sheets will be requested this year along with track inspections. This is something that hasn't been done consistently in the past unlike the roadracing side of things. 

They need to be publicly posted. This somewhat forces honesty as anyone can check and potentially protest as is their option.

36 minutes ago, Ianfromduff said:

Looking into something similar without bringing in the ota

I don't necessarily have any issue with this. However, why not ask OTA as a general question? (IE what's wrong with OTA?) They seem to have a somewhat decent handle on things overall.
Just not seeing the need to reinvent the wheel.

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2 hours ago, nopistons said:

 

I don't necessarily have any issue with this. However, why not ask OTA as a general question? (IE what's wrong with OTA?) They seem to have a somewhat decent handle on things overall.
Just not seeing the need to reinvent the wheel

It sounds like you have an issue with it tho Haha

 

I just don't see the need of bringing in the ota to deal with wscc specific problems. If time attack  competitors are given a collective say for decision making then I have full trust that the right choices will be made. 

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I would like to know what the issues people are having with classing their car? Is the website hard to use? Do they just not know how to answer the questions? Do people just not care/can't be bothered?

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1 minute ago, 84TurboSupra said:

I would like to know what the issues people are having with classing their car? Is the website hard to use? Do they just not know how to answer the questions? Do people just not care/can't be bothered?

For newcomers to the sport it is a very confusing and long process. I've helped about a handful of people last year with the process as qell as made a guide on how to correctly class a car.  

 

That's just the website. If people had to class cars from just the rulebook alone it would be a gongshow. 

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2 minutes ago, Ianfromduff said:

For newcomers to the sport it is a very confusing and long process. I've helped about a handful of people last year with the process as qell as made a guide on how to correctly class a car.  

 

That's just the website. If people had to class cars from just the rulebook alone it would be a gongshow. 

I’ve got to be honest. This is getting silly. Let’s for a moment consider the time we ALL spend on our track cars and this sport in terms of preparation etc. Complaining about a little bit of paperwork is hard to take seriously. The effort of classing and tech to compete at GMP is insignificant and I think we should focus our energy elsewhere.

People seem to spend more time complaining than it would actually take to class and register.

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i just went to OTA CC DB and opened an account.  http://ccdb.casc.on.ca/Default.aspx

i added my vehicle and ran it through the the checklist

my car is classed and at this point, ready to submit for approval. the process took 15 min from beginning to end. anybody have concerns with this, please PM me and i will be happy to go through it with you.

Matt

PIP 1.PNG

1529427288_PIP7.thumb.PNG.cb88f4f6f8426083d2133bb057a2844b.PNG

Edited by mcorrie
pic orientation

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Did your classing change from last year?

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Yes. Off seasons will do that...

im posting for the sake of showing the process. 

I will make more changes and check the classification again before the 1st race.  Maybe drop a class if I end up running 888’s, but as it sits the RR’s are a 10 point hit

Edited by mcorrie

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1 hour ago, mcorrie said:

i just went to OTA CC DB and opened an account.  http://ccdb.casc.on.ca/Default.aspx

i added my vehicle and ran it through the the checklist

my car is classed and at this point, ready to submit for approval. the process took 15 min from beginning to end. anybody have concerns with this, please PM me and i will be happy to go through it with you.

Matt

PIP 1.PNG

1529427288_PIP7.thumb.PNG.cb88f4f6f8426083d2133bb057a2844b.PNG

I bet you were only able to do it that quickly because you watched this 

:P;)

 

 

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34 minutes ago, mcorrie said:

Yes. Off seasons will do that...

im posting for the sake of showing the process. 

I will make more changes and check the classification again before the 1st race.  Maybe drop a class if I end up running 888’s, but as it sits the RR’s are a 10 point hit

The r888 and r88rs are exempt from points in ota because toyo is a sponsor of the series. In the asn rulebook it just says this 

5.1.2. TIRES
I. Installation of Street legal tires with a treadwear rating (UTQG) of 140 
or higher 
0 PIP
 

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LOL - had i only known...

Toyo is a series sponsor, in Dave's post that is not related to the ruling. Even if it was, i don't know if it really has an effect on performance in the big picture:noidea: They have stated the break is now UP from 140 at 180TW...

Note the Fuel requirement change.

 

rule change 2019.PNG

Edited by mcorrie
text

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25 minutes ago, mcorrie said:

LOL - had i only known...

Toyo is a series sponsor, in Dave's post that is not related to the ruling. Even if it was, i don't know if it really has an effect on performance in the big picture:noidea: They have stated the break is now UP from 140 at 180TW...

Note the Fuel requirement change.

 

rule change 2019.PNG

I'm curious if asn will also adapt these rules in. So far nothing has been released for the rulebook for 2019 and the next asn meeting isn't until sometime in April.

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can somebody "in the know" find out about a Dyno Day at Speedfactor? this would be nice for the schedules and classing. They have offered this previously at a discount to WSCC members but I don't know how that worked.

matt

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7 minutes ago, mcorrie said:

can somebody "in the know" find out about a Dyno Day at Speedfactor? this would be nice for the schedules and classing. They have offered this previously at a discount to WSCC members but I don't know how that worked.

matt

I volunteer @nopistons

 

 

ha!

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I went to one last Fall with a Modern Mopar group, I can look into it if you want. I ran my new Veloster, it only had about 1000km on it! haha

It was a bit disorganized because there was a scheduling issue or something, and it started off really rough. But they came through and smoothed it out by the end. Their dyno setup is an odd one, but it does the trick and the guys know what they're doing.

Before I even go to them though, it would be best to have a guesstimate on how many cars might be interested.

Edited by Rare Snake

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2 hours ago, Mat said:

I volunteer @nopistons

As I seem to be their executive contact, I have no issue with doing this, although Dason, if you want to arrange it, have at 'er!

Last time we did this, we booked the Dyno for the day and split up the times as SFR suggested.
I believe it was in 1/2hr blocks. Max 10-12 cars per day. We had 2 days booked.
If you wanted tuning time, you needed to book at least 2 blocks, either back to back, or one in the AM and one in the PM.

It can be open to all club members, priority given to RR and TA folks.

We can open it up to gauge interest and if we need to book more than one day, we can do that too.
 

Edited by nopistons
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I didn't realize you guys have done this before, that's awesome. I would rather you take it on then.  :)

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3 minutes ago, Rare Snake said:

I didn't realize you guys have done this before, that's awesome. I would rather you take it on then.  :)

Yep we did it to accommodate the new NASA rule set a couple seasons back.
 

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On 2/26/2019 at 7:14 PM, Ianfromduff said:

I'm curious if asn will also adapt these rules in. So far nothing has been released for the rulebook for 2019 and the next asn meeting isn't until sometime in April.

Yes, ASN will be updating the rule book, there may be more minor changes, nothing has been posted yet.

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