David Klassen Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 I’m in research phase to purchase my first sports car. my goals are to: have fun do the High Performance Driving school in spring of 2019 do hot laps (for a year or 2) to Improve my skills spend less than $15,000 be able to drive the car to/from the track for hot lapping competition events might be in the future, but I’m not aiming for that right now. I’ve narrowed my choice to either a Mazda Miata (2nd generation or newer) or BMW Z3 or Z4. I might even we able swing a BMW coupe I’m willing to entertain other similar possibilities for a rear wheel drive sports car. Any advice would be appreciated! peace, Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopistons Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 (edited) Can you comfortably fit in either of those? Having driven many iterations of both cars you suggested, I would say the Miata. Z3/Z4 are not as forgiving and arguably not as reliable as the Miata. Mazda will be cheaper to "build" as time moves on. Mazda requires a roll bar to go on the track The Z3/Z4 might as well depending on the model. You will need to confirm it has roll hoops or the pyro roll protection. Another sports car that fits into the same category as the Miata would be the Toyota GT86 and all of its various derivatives (BRZ, FRS). Edited September 18, 2018 by nopistons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need my Focusin Posted September 18, 2018 Share Posted September 18, 2018 Miata is such good bang for the buck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Earl_Spilner Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 You could always just be like everybody else and get an S2000. Arguably one of the best sports cars/roadsters ever made. Though I'm not sure you could find a decent one for less than $15k. I'd be surprised if you could even find a Z4 for under $15k that wasn't smashed or bagged to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRS Joe Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 (edited) To do this reliably as been said before “the answer is always miata”. The bmw may have more power and options, but will be much more to maintain and less reliable in the long run. Also the consumables on the miata will be much cheaper (tires and pads) 15k won’t get you the s2000 unless it’s been poorly modded or has a history. Edited September 19, 2018 by MRS Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magner Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 The answer is ALWAYS Miata. Third generation, NC1 06-08 would would be a logical choice based on the budget and needs. These are usually overlooked but after driving one early this year I would disagree. Great blend of modern features, sporty feel and value. Felt much lighter and toss-able than my S2000. Rear limited split diff and possibly a 6spd would the only options to look out for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I was in your shoes about 2 years ago. Same basic wants and budget, but I was more focussed on a Daily/AX car but still wanted to go to the track. I ultimately ended up with an AP1 (2000-2003) S2000. This one had high km so I got a pretty good deal. Still, they are out there, as long as you don't mind a > 150k vehicle. Other than a Miata it was probably the most reliable choice even with higher mileage. I do not regret my decision whatsoever. The only knock is that it's not really a great beginner's car to learn on, as it can bite you pretty quickly. A Miata or FRS might be better if you're just starting out. Also on my watchlist at the time, which may or may not suit you: Miata - tons of options in an NA (90-97) or NB (99-05) model, fewer options in an NC (06-15). I'd go with an older NC if I had to choose. BMW E36 (90-2000) - various styles, possibly a modified M3 or Z3 for a bit more $ and with a bit of history ... tempting BMW E46 (2000-06) - regular 3-series as there's no way you'd find an M3 or Z4 for under $15k, unfortunately RX8 - be wary about spinning triangles that like to go boom. Still, a great platform for the money, and I hear LS swaps are a thing. 99-04ish Boxster - some say be wary of the infamous IMS bearing, but it's most likely an overblown concern C5 base or possibly C5Z - the base doesn't really do it for me but the Z is awesome and if you can snag one for around 15k do it! I saw some slightly modded or set up for autocross in the US for around 12-15k USD a couple years ago - not showroom quality but who cares if you're taking it to the track anyway? Might as well let the last guy eat the "it's been on a track" depreciation rather than you. Still a bit of a stretch on the budget, but other than that it's a great choice for the track. At the time, I had just sold an NA Miata and I wanted something with more power. For autocross it was fine, but for the track you might get a little frustrated with the lack of power. Then again if you want to eventually mod it you can always add power later. Personally I wouldn't bother with NA/NB if my intention was to track the car, but that's just one opinion. I'm sure most guys will tell you it's the best all around choice due to reliability, aftermarket support, cheap consumables, etc. And those guys are not wrong. Nopistons mentioned BRZ/FRS twins. Either of those would be a great all around choice, too. They weren't available for $15k when I was searching, but may be now. If so, I'd strongly consider that. Actually I may have even chosen that over my S2k I could find one. Great driver's car, lots of aftermarket support, fairly reliable, good looks, more power and more practical (in terms of street driving) than any convertible, and a lot newer than most of the cars on the above list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Klassen Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 @nopistons thank you for the pointer to the Toyota/Subaru/Scion. I had been leaning toward a coupe because of chassis rigidity and safety. This gives me a fresh avenue to explore. @Need my Focusin thanks for the Miata vote, I’ve heard others recommend it too. I’m sensing that the older Z3s are retaining value, maybe becoming collectible, the newer Z4s are becoming reasonable. But yeah, expensive to maintain @Brian_Earl_Spilner yeah, I’ve researched the S2000 but it’s out of my price range @MRS Joe thanks for the Miata vote and other confirming points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Klassen Posted September 19, 2018 Author Share Posted September 19, 2018 @Magner thanks for the detailed Miata recommendation! @Beau thank you for all the food for though. I’ll have to work through all the details! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Eh. Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Keep an eye open on all the hail damaged cars coming out of MPIC lately. If you don't mind the dents on a DD some deals may be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopistons Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 2 hours ago, Jim Eh. said: Keep an eye open on all the hail damaged cars coming out of MPIC lately. If you don't mind the dents on a DD some deals may be had. Yes! C5 with a slightly cracked bumper went for $7k! Big hail auction coming up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesi92 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 If a RHD S2000 turns your crank, check this out.... https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/winnipeg/2000-honda-s2000-type-v-vgs-low-km-best-deal-on-kijiji/1385092905?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true I have no knowledge regarding this car other than seeing the ad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesi92 Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 And then there's this one: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/winnipeg/2002-honda-s2000-convertible/1382015544?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true and another RHD: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/winnipeg/2000-honda-s2000/1381637254?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRS Joe Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 9 hours ago, nopistons said: Yes! C5 with a slightly cracked bumper went for $7k! Big hail auction coming up! Big hail auction was last Saturday. Matrix xrs - 1k. Lots of potentially good buys, some stupid over priced ones too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopistons Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 9 hours ago, MRS Joe said: Big hail auction was last Saturday. Ooops. I'm loosing time. September is going by in a hurry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Klassen Posted September 27, 2018 Author Share Posted September 27, 2018 Thank you for all the comments. Next phase, next week is to test drive some samples of my top 4: Miata Z3 Z4 Scion FR-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themikewoo Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 On 9/19/2018 at 10:01 PM, MRS Joe said: Big hail auction was last Saturday. Matrix xrs - 1k. Lots of potentially good buys, some stupid over priced ones too. I didn't know the Matrix was legal to race, to me it looks too top heavy. They also made a XRS version of the Corolla too! Question for the RHD owners. How hard is it finding parts? That is my biggest issue holding me back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopistons Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, themikewoo said: I didn't know the Matrix was legal to race, to me it looks too top heavy. Hahaha allow me to enlighten you! Dont forget the factory supercharged models! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Posted September 28, 2018 Share Posted September 28, 2018 1 hour ago, nopistons said: Hahaha allow me to enlighten you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_cross Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 I am a bit late here but I vote miata. I love mine and drive it daily in summer. Handling is awesome. I have a 1991 miata. You can't beat the cheap = fun factor. I have had expensive cars and this car. This car is way more fun with less worries. My friend had a newer non pop up light model with the sport package. That car was a little go kart. I would look at something like the sport package. It out performed my earlier miata. if your budget is 15k my miata has about $6k in it (including purchase price) and his sport sold for $7k. On a $15k budget that should leave you some extra to buy a roll bar to run HPDE events/school. I recommend getting a nice set of 200 tread ware trires. some day I would love to put a ls motor in my miata. Side note I would love a Honda s600 the grand dad of the s2000. Maybe some day I would trade the miata for one if the right one came along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Klassen Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 Thank you white cross! I’m scratching the cash together and will probably be in a position to buy in late winter/ early spring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcorrie Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 "good" Miata FS: http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=35589 350/370Z's are not unreasonable cars to work with. Prices are getting decent and support is there as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Klassen Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 Thanks mcorrie . . . good link on the Miata. Yeah, I've been looking at the 350Z's as well. Just have to raise the cash now . . . buying in late winter / early spring. peace, Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Klassen Posted November 16, 2018 Author Share Posted November 16, 2018 Road Block on the Miata NC! So I bought a helmet to help me gauge prospective cars and I got in a Miata NC today. I'm not a tall person (big, but not tall, 5' 10") and with the helmet on, it pushes up on the fabric convertible top and hits the lateral framing member. (seat was all the way back, all the way down). Drawing a line from the top of the wind screen frame to the stock roll hoop, my helmet would be about 2" above the line Thinking about putting in an after market roll bar, but I'd have to remove the convertible top totally. It's completely in the way of a roll bar and back angle brace. Or maybe putting in a lower seat? Are we allowed to run on the track with out a top? Nissan 350Z is looking good, I can fit in it with the helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nopistons Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 (edited) Yes you can run without the top but if your helmet protrudes beyond the roll bar, you will be unable to enter the track due to safety concerns. Theres also the part of having something over your head for the inevitable downpour! Perhaps the convertible part of the search needs a re-think? Edited November 17, 2018 by nopistons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 There are Miata roll bars available that let you keep the soft top. I assume they're also available for the NC. I had a Hard Dog model in my NA. Get the SCCA-approved ones, not the chrome 'sporty' hoop ones. Option 2: get a lower seat. I had a fibreglass race seat in my NA, sat right on the floor. I was really low. A 5'6" friend couldn't see over the dash. Getting in and out of a race seat is a bit much for some people for a daily driver, and fitting wide(r) race seats in Miatas requires careful planning/purchasing. Option 3: 350Zs are really nice. I've been impressed how well Chris D's has treated him over many years of service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Klassen Posted November 17, 2018 Author Share Posted November 17, 2018 There is a Hard Dog available for the NC and is SCCA approved. That would take care of the roll bar issue Would still have get a lower seat to get the helmet from hitting the roof. All totaled, 3 - 4K$ on top of the cost. Maybe better to put that towards a 350z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themikewoo Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 8 hours ago, Corey said: Option 3: 350Zs are really nice. I've been impressed how well Chris D's has treated him over many years of service. Think with drifting being so popular afraid they will jump up in price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conebasher Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 (edited) You have to consider a Boxster. The prices are good, they are very reliable, cheap to operate (at least our 2004 model was) and can pound around Gimli road course all day without roasting the brakes or clutch. Plus they have a ton of storage in both trunks, sound fantastic, easy to drive and the Porsche Club of America has an active group in Winnipeg that does cool cruises and Porsche-only track days. Don't believe the hype? Ask anybody on this forum that drove our car or had a chance to try one at autocross or the road course. Edited December 24, 2018 by conebasher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Klassen Posted December 24, 2018 Author Share Posted December 24, 2018 Can you give me any indication as to the head room in the Boxter? For all the recommendations that I got for the Miata, I would have to do extensive seat lowering/roll bar raising in order to take it out on the track. I'm big, but not tall (5'10") and with a helmet I'm too tall for a stock Miata. Sort of killed that for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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