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justkickin

Seeking Tire Advice

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Looking for some input on what could be going on here as I seem to be wearing tires from the inside out. 

Some background:
1. I am religious about pressures. These tires run at 28 PSI rear or 30 PSI front, or 32 PSI on the street. 
2. The tires are dedicated autox tires, very limited street miles. 
3. Sometimes they sit in the garage for a week or two at a 24 - 26 PSI, but the car does not move until I check torque and pressure. 
4. I had a blow out on the left front earlier this year that I attributed to road shrapnel, now I am not so sure. 
5. Note that the cording in the tire pictured is on the INSIDE of the sidewall. My tire shop refused to remount, and I am not questioning their judgement here. 
6. The blow out and the cording both appeared on the front left side. 
7. The noncorded tire was on the right front.
8. Both sides have similar tread wear.
9. Both sides have 47 autox runs. 
10. Car is running the full Strano setup with some alignment tweaks to adjust to our surface and style. 

Do note the bump/ridge that seems to be running across the inside of the tire adjacent to the cording. I have included a pic of the inside of the good tire from the right side of the car with the same run count on it. 

Question for the smart people here, manufacturing defects or setup problem? I can live with the former, but would like to fix the latter. If the latter, thoughts on fixes? 

Any help is appreciated as, in all honesty, I don't understand how two tires with the same run count and inflation practice can appear the same on the outside but so different on the inside. 

 

Still sorting this tire wear and alignment lock down issues. This, coupled with family obligations is why Chris and I were unaccounted for and apparently gave Curtis way too many points this weekend. lol 

 

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Posted (edited)

I have only ever seen damage shown in Pictures 2, 3, and 4 from tires that were driven on flat (the sidewall gets flexed excessively and the inner liner breaks down) in the 12 years I've worked in the industry. How that happens if you swear it's never been low on pressure I can't explain. Interesting that it's twice now on the LF. You have multiple sets of wheels, same wheel both times? Has the valve stem been replaced between the issues? Just spitballin'. Google tells me the C5Z doesn't have TPMS so I'm assuming the tire pressures are checked manually.

I'm assuming damage is on both sidewalls of the LF tire, not just one?

Edited by Run Away

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17 minutes ago, Run Away said:

I'm assuming damage is on both sidewalls of the LF tire, not just one?

By both, do you mean inside and outside? This cording is solely on the inside of tire on the inside tirewall. On the Sandbox (roadraceautox.com) I am now hearing drop pressures even more...I am soooo confused! (think Welcome Back Kotter...google it if necessary). 

Attached here is the aftermath of the aforementioned blowout. Not certain anymore that the two events are unrelated. 

Note that the car is at about -2.5 degrees camber up front. 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

What are you running for Toe up front? Toe tends to have a much higher effect on tire wear then camber. To me the inside tire wear doesnt look that much more excessive then the outside but I'm wondering if it's a temperature issue? 

Edited by rjames

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Note that the wear is on the INTERIOR of the tire, not the tread.  Weird.  

I looked through an old 'diagnosing truck tire issues' booklet we had at work - they only mention they have for something like this is low inflation pressure where the tire folds and rubs on itself.  

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Yes the fact it's on the interior makes me think more heat related then wear related, I don't think manufacturer defect only because you had the blow out on that same side.

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Darn that sucks, good thing you had a trailer for Gimli.

 

What is the date code mfg date on this tire, does it match the one that blew out or the other front? How does the other front tire look like on the inside edges?

 

Do you have a second tire gauge to test your usual autox gauge? Does it read low? Looking back we killed those Nexen's last year really fast, the middle still had meat which would indicate low pressure too.

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Having several gauges to cross check and a pyrometer would help greatly. 

I agree with Corey about the tire folding over on itself due to under inflation.  When the tire is loaded the outside comes in, the inside may roll far enough for the sidewall to roll up/ pinch and ripple/rub causing the irregular wear? I’ve only see that sort of symptom on under inflated implement tires (lawn tractor tires at 10psi while horsing around) 

a gopro in slowmo under there could perhaps catch this... 

 

I was not there tim, no body damage I hope. 

 

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Car was fine @MRS Joe thanks, just a big tire mark. Thankfully we caught this second one before it blew out. Interestingly, after the event I was headed to that I did not make the tire would have been removed and flipped. I wonder if we would have seen the same wear as well? Will never know the answer to that question.

And yes, I have two gauges that I use. Like I said, kinda anal about this car, although it may not appear that way all the time. 

@Magner these are both from the set we bought last fall. 

I get the under inflation argument @Corey, do appreciate you looking it up. It does make the most sense but it fails for me on a couple of points:

1. The right side has no issues and it is subject to all the same variables of pressure (30psi), camber (-2.5ish) and toe (0). Also mounted on an identical 18x9.5 wheel. 

2. This is the second set of RE71R's on the car. The first set went to 120ish runs with nothing like this. 

After the blow out the left front wheel went to Wpg Wheel Works for close inspection and got a clean bill of health. 

One post on RoadRaceAutox has a note from the Bridgestone Engineers to run lower, at 26psi and his problem like this went away. That is just weird. 

I am also thinking a pyrometer is going to be my next tool purchase, it has to be less expensive than this is turning out to be. 

Any suspension guru's here wanna help me go over my left corner with a fine tooth comb this weekend before I destroy a third tire? One other post on RoadRaceAutox mentioned shock or bushing issues to check for...no idea what to check for though since the shock and its related hardware are all new. 

It would appear my email to the local Bridgestone rep has attracted the attention of the Engineers and one of them will call me tomorrow, I hope. 

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I would be checking the front end very closely, through the shop i've seen a few odd ones. An item lots of people overlook is the Rack bushings

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Mounting damage that started  failure and track abuse just acceleŕated it? Or defective tires. 

Coincidence about two in  row in the same position?

I have looked at many tires and performed more alignments than I can count and I have never seen any alignment cause damage like that ... ever. If the tire was so under inflated as to cause damage then there would be tell tale signs well before the failure.

Also if there were a defective component, again there would be telltale sign long before your failure.

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11 hours ago, Jim Eh. said:

If the tire was so under inflated as to cause damage then there would be tell tale signs well before the failure.

Those Bridgestones have some STIFF sidewalls.  I once had a dangerously-low tire pressure that I could barely feel in the S2000.  I got a free drywall screw in the process too!  

Tim, I'd bump the pressures up in the front at the next event to see if an extra 3-5 psi doesn't negatively affect anything.  

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2 hours ago, Corey said:

Those Bridgestones have some STIFF sidewalls.  I once had a dangerously-low tire pressure that I could barely feel in the S2000.  I got a free drywall screw in the process too!  

Tim, I'd bump the pressures up in the front at the next event to see if an extra 3-5 psi doesn't negatively affect anything.  

I threw out a tire pressure gauge that read something like 5psi on my RE-11s on my Golf R when I checked pressure on my one tire at the gas station. Drove home and put my good gauge on it and same pressure. The tire looked like it was barely low on pressure, not completely flat. Surprisingly the tire was not destroyed from driving on it.

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10 hours ago, Corey said:

 

Tim, I'd bump the pressures up in the front at the next event to see if an extra 3-5 psi doesn't negatively affect anything.  

That is my thought! 

Bridgestone engineering is thinking low pressure as well but I still think that is the easy way out. 

@rjames and @Jim Eh., Yeah going    to have shop check that corner over as I told the Bridgestone Engineer, to me stuff is moving only in the directions it is supposed to. We chuckled. He's going to talk to John Laughlin (sp?) Who raced one of these for a few years and is now in a mod Mustang and works down the hall. Was nice talking to someone who understands what I do with the car at a manufacturer. Shall see what they email back.

For now I am shopping another tire.... Costco is sold out. 

@Shawn I had a gauge do that as well, threw it out. Like you, won't make that mistake twice. 

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