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white_cross

when is the first autocross event?

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Right, thanks for the correction Mat! I meant that the lapping session ran for a certain time, but can't English today. 

English is weird, but it can be understood through tough thorough thought, though. 

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57 minutes ago, Corey said:

Right, thanks for the correction Mat! I meant that the lapping session ran for a certain time, but can't English today. 

English is weird, but it can be understood through tough thorough thought, though. 

Sorry Corey I didn’t want that to come across as me correcting you!

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8 hours ago, Mat said:

Sorry Corey I didn’t want that to come across as me correcting you!

No worries, my statement could be taken in a way that was completely wrong. Better to clarify! 

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Anyone looking for Hot Lapping Requirements at Gimli Motorsports Park can refer to this link.

 

 

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Okay.. thanks.... Arrive with full fuel tank!  :D  GOT IT

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Yes. Gas station is only 5 min away as well!

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When I did the HPDE last spring My Impreza had hardly any tire ware and I did about 100km (not holding back either) of laps on the second day alone (at least that is what my odometer was saying). My brake pads and rotors showed minimal ware too. So if you respect your car and don't overdrive it you will have a blast. 

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On 4/18/2018 at 4:29 PM, white_cross said:

When I did the HPDE last spring My Impreza had hardly any tire ware and I did about 100km (not holding back either) of laps on the second day alone (at least that is what my odometer was saying). My brake pads and rotors showed minimal ware too. So if you respect your car and don't overdrive it you will have a blast. 

You must have been putt-putting around then. Gimli is an utter cheese grater on tires if you're giving it hell. Especially the right front. I've had chunk missing from tires many times from Solo Sprints. I even had cracked front brake rotors one year. I remember Nish missing chunks of rubber from his old M3 too.

There's no way you did 100km on the track, lapping hard, and have minimal tire & brake wear.

 

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1 hour ago, Brian_Earl_Spilner said:

You must have been putt-putting around then. Gimli is an utter cheese grater on tires if you're giving it hell. Especially the right front. I've had chunk missing from tires many times from Solo Sprints. I even had cracked front brake rotors one year. I remember Nish missing chunks of rubber from his old M3 too.

There's no way you did 100km on the track, lapping hard, and have minimal tire & brake wear.

 

Comments like this will only discourage people from participating. It’s the opposite of what our club needs.

If you’re running a car on ANY race track you should expect significant wear on consumable items such as tires and brakes. If you over drive the hell out of your car and go diving in to corners plowing all over the place then yes you’re going to see massive wear. Hot Lapping at Gimli isn’t racing. It should be about learning how to drive smoothly and consistently. Upgrading the driver. Doing 100 laps on the limit should not be ones goal nor expectation.

It’s up to the driver to decide if learning the line and practicing consistency is more important than beating the hell out of your equipment.

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Mat said:

Comments like this will only discourage people from participating. It’s the opposite of what our club needs.

My intention wasn't to discourage anybody. The comments above mine saying that 100km of lapping at Gimli with negligible wear & tear to show for it is UNrealistic, and I've responded based on experience from years of tracking.

It's unlikely that anybody is going to want to come to a race track and roll around like it's a Sunday scenic drive with the family, causing no wear on tires and brakes. They're going to want to have fun with their cars, and people need a realistic expectation if they come to the track.

So it's been said from one person that they had minimal wear, and from another who's had plenty of wear. Both sides have been told, so either way, people can make up their own minds, or come to the track and find out for themselves.

Edited by Brian_Earl_Spilner
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Might as well be honest up front. Even at the HPDE school with an instructor, I noticed significant tire/brake wear on my E46 M3. My almost new front right tire was almost corded by the end of the weekend. A friend with a brand new C43 AMG who took the school last summer (after I encouraged him to) had to replace 2 front tires after the 1 weekend of the school. He told me he enjoyed the experience, but wished he knew ahead of time how bad the wear was going to be so he could budget for it. 

Sure, you can let people try the track out and find out for themselves or posts like Brian's can warn them ahead of time so they know what to expect. Light-weight race cars are one thing, but given the heavy weight of modern cars these days, you don't need to "over-drive the hell" out of your car to experience significant tire/brake wear at Gimli. 

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Interesting you guys are waring soo fast on those items. I was not holding back either as I was passing most guys in my run group in the school. I had a blast and want to do it again. My instructor had me learning to be smooth. The way you drive fast around the road course is not the same as a fast autocross run. If I drove like it was autocross I would have killed the tires and brakes in a few laps. on the straight I was hitting over a 100kmh and my impreza is not a turbo model but a 2.5ts wagon. There was another person who took the school and she corded her tires badly by the end of the event but she over drove her car all day. When I pushed the car beyond its limits and started sliding a lot more the tires started to get used up more. You can be smooth and fast out on the road course. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/21/2018 at 6:44 PM, white_cross said:

 on the straight I was hitting over a 100kmh and my impreza is not a turbo model but a 2.5ts wagon.

Well that explains no wear & tear... only 100km/h on the front straight? In my old turbo Civic I was pushing 190-200km/h at the end of the front straight. If you're only going 100km/h, no wonder you had no wear. Though I'm not sure how you'd be passing most everyone at that speed like you claim. It's not hard to hit 150+ on the front straight, even in non-turbo cars.

Anyway, sorry for taking the thread off-topic.

Edited by Brian_Earl_Spilner
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I've taken the HPDE event with my STI running Rivals. As far as driving style goes, I'd say I pushed the car pretty hard, topped out at about 185-187 kmh on the straights before catching up to the next person in front of me and having to slow down.  At the end of the event the rivals did take a beating but they weren't all that bad. The brakes on the other hand wore a decent amount due to my aggressive breaking (got them hot enough to smoke coming into the pits hahah oops). That said, not everyone experienced the same wear as me. There were a number of drivers that had chunked tires or abnormal wear, most of these were on all seasons or really cheap summer tires. Some of drivers that experienced a lot of wear were also new drivers and no doubt were sliding their cars a lot more than needed around corners. 

I'm sure everyone attending HPDE/Hot Lapping/Autocross is aware that their consumables will experience some wear. The degree of wear will depend on driving style, driver experience, type/weight of car, whether you strategically rotate your tires, ect. When I attended the HPDE event, the instructor told us to expect some wear on tires/brakes and listed off a number of tires that are better for the Gimli track. I guess at this point it would have already been too late since you already paid and were on track. However, as I stated earlier, everyone attending these events should be fairly aware they will go through consumables. 

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Autocrossers who are not used to wear will want to keep an eye on their tires and brakes and be prepared to rotate them.  When I was Time Attacking I could go through both quickly if I was not careful.  To keep perspective, I would drive an automatic 4 door focus (front heavy car) and would need to slow down to 80 - 90 for turn 1 from 160 or so. 

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7 hours ago, Brian_Earl_Spilner said:

Well that explains no wear & tear... only 100km/h on the front straight? In my old turbo Civic I was pushing 190-200km/h at the end of the front straight. If you're only going 100km/h, no wonder you had no wear. Though I'm not sure how you'd be passing most everyone at that speed like you claim. It's not hard to hit 150+ on the front straight, even in non-turbo cars.

Anyway, sorry for taking the thread off-topic.

I am not going to make a debate about this and will finish with saying this: I had a ton of fun and that is what matters most. I commented previously I was over 100kmh not topping out at 100kmh. In reality it was more like 145-150 (I never really looked all that much at the speed, just listened for the revs) in the straight. Some people ware faster and some slower but in the the end it is about having fun. My friend in his miata sport experienced minimal wear as did I. Not "no tire wear". I did blow the stuffing out of my cheap muffler though :). So you be the judge if you want to go or not, that is up to you. This will be my last comment on this topic, no need to start an argument.

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I would encourage everyone to come out and experience lapping at GMP. The amount of tire and brake wear is controlled by the driver.

The track surface at Gimli is abrasive.  It's old ash-fault, suffering from years of erosion, we are kinda lucky to have it our backyard.  It's much the same surface as St Andrews airport. The duration that the tire is under load from cornering is greater at GMP compared to St Andrews, resulting in more heat, more wear.  

Below are my thoughts on Lapping Days.  Excessive wear on the road course occurs primary for two reasons...

1 - You're over driving the car.  Most street cars tend to understeer at the limit, carry too much corner speed, primary on entry, you end up plowing your way through.  You can feel the front sliding, scrubbing off speed and tire tread.  Happens all day long during HPDE events.   Corner 1 will destroy tires if you drive like this. 

2 - You're actually driving at the limit, using 100% of the available grip, you've done 1000's of laps at GMP you know your car and track.  The car is neutral through the corner, all four tires are sliding at their optimum slip angle.  You're hitting all, your marks, primary concern is getting the best lap time.  Brake, tire and vehicle wear are secondary.

Ninety percent of tire wear occurs in corner 1, the right front taking the most abuse as it sees the greatest load and overheats.  Overheat a street tire and it will chunk.  Every other corner you can be messy, with minimal tire wear, but not corner one.  Don't dive bomb corner one, there's so much else you can work on. Slow it down and be smooth, lapping is not racing.

I'd suggest rather than trying to set the fastest lap time, concentrate on actually learning something.  Lap days are NOT timed events, so slow it down and conserve your car, brakes too.  Come out for lapping and learn some new skills, or improve the ones you already have.   Learn the proper race line, it will take you at least a hundred laps.  Keep your eyes up, you'll see things when your not it the tunnel of trying to go as fast as you can.  Practice your brake release, learn to trail brake, get your heal-toe downshifts smooth, and much more.  Concentrate on just one thing for a session or two, feel what the car is doing, what do you hear?   There's so much you can learn, it will take more than day, perhaps a lifetime.  It's all about having fun with your buddies.

The amount of wear & tear is completely up to you and your wallet size, so drive accordingly. 

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That makes too much sense. 

 

My technique: 

  1. Point the car four feet to the infield of turn one
  2. Floor it 
  3. Let the understeer pull the car to the Apex. 
  4. Rotate tires
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On 4/23/2018 at 11:33 PM, SVOXR4STi said:

The track surface at Gimli is abrasive.  It's old ash-fault, suffering from years of erosion, we are kinda lucky to have it our backyard.  It's much the same surface as St Andrews airport. The duration that the tire is under load from cornering is greater at GMP compared to St Andrews, resulting in more heat, more wear. 

Thank you. I think this is the point that myself and Brian were trying to get across. No point not disclosing that and hoping it won't discourage newbies.

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