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    • Jim Eh.

      Annual General Meeting   10/30/2017

      The Winnipeg Sports Car Club invites you to attend the 2017 Annual General Meeting and election of Directors and Officers. 
      Thursday, November 23, 2017     Canad Inns “Boardroom”, 826 Regent Avenue @ Plessis (not the casino).   (more...)
      The Boardroom is down the hall by Tavern United (not the Annex room that is off the Aaltos restaurant). 

      6:00pm
      We have the Boardroom beginning at 6:00pm. Come and join us for dinner. Take food from the Aaltos buffet back to the Boardroom where a server will take drinks orders. The club will pay half the cost of your meal.
       
      7:00pm
      The annual general meeting will start at 7:00pm.    

      Please plan on attending to ensure we have a quorum to conduct the annual club business and elect next years executive.

      Thank you,
      WSCC Executive

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Hey guys,

I have an MZ3 that's been making metal in the filter for the last few months. It hasn't affected power since the dyno still shows 133 WHP. I currently use Pennzoil Patinum 5W-30. I tried changing it up from the 5W-20 I was using previously. The engine is also burning about a liter every 5000 km. The Blackstone Labs reports I sent out say that there's no significant traces of metals in the oil. Do the Duratec engines burn oil naturally? Or should I be looking at rings and a hone?

Blackstone 101716.pdf

2016-09-20 18.25.30.jpg

Edited by MazdaManiaa

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As it says in your oil report their equipment won't detect the visible particles. I'd be a bit concerned myself to find that much in the filter. Are the particles aluminum or steel/iron?

That may point you in a direction as to where it's coming from.  Have you checked oil pressure & compression?  

As far as a litre useage every 5000kms that's nothing at all to be concerned about.

I'm no mechanic, these are just my initial thoughts :)

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Generally, oil analysis flags a big change in substances rather than just the presence of. This is the indicator that notes something is wrong.

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mine dosn't seem to burn any oil. but I will check out my filter next time I do an oil change to make sure its not spitting out shaving like that.

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We sent an oil sample from our karts to the lab that is at Freightliner and they could tell us what specifically was making the metal particles. The metallurgy of various engine parts are different so the specific particles will tell you what is wearing out

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On 3/24/2017 at 11:20 PM, conebasher said:

We sent an oil sample from our karts to the lab that is at Freightliner and they could tell us what specifically was making the metal particles. The metallurgy of various engine parts are different so the specific particles will tell you what is wearing out

Hey Mark, can you share one of their oil analyses with me? I am curious what they report on as I have only ever seen people post up their Blackstone oil reports. I always wanted to do this to see what might be going on in my car but never knew we had someone local. What do they charge for the analysis? I am just about to do an oil change so now would be a perfect time to collect a sample.

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I got one from toromont cat  

Im curious to see what the freight liner analysis looks like as well. 

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On 4/11/2017 at 11:46 PM, codewhore said:

Hey Mark, can you share one of their oil analyses with me? I am curious what they report on as I have only ever seen people post up their Blackstone oil reports. I always wanted to do this to see what might be going on in my car but never knew we had someone local. What do they charge for the analysis? I am just about to do an oil change so now would be a perfect time to collect a sample.

I'll look around for it, that was 10 years ago

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Major update! It seems the 2.3L duratec that came in these cars (and a few fords) are prone to eating their bottom end bearings, resulting in rod knock and the need to rebuild or replace the motor. Mine came very suddenly during fun runs at the Gimli autox event. no metal in the oil before and very little oil usage. So when it started knocking I was very surprised. A quick google search though revealed the 2.3 curse and I had my answer. the 2.3 has since been replaced by a much better built 2.5 based on the same block but of course with better internals. Interesting the 2.0 which is also based on the same block didn't seem to suffer from the same curse. The good news is that the MZ3 motor can be swapped with a 2.5 without changing the ECU. Amazing I know but there is a several huge threads of successful swaps with many miles on them. Also becuase the 2.5 is in much less demand they are cheap used! A used 2.3 is easily double the price. I have completed my swap with a 2.5 now by swapping pretty much all the dressing from the 2.3 onto the 2.5 that came out of a ford fusion, and it runs great. the main issue is that the intake manifold from the 2.3 has smaller ports than the 2.5 so there are various ways to seal it or use a 2.5 manifold but at the moment I still have a leak in mine. I will be fixing it when I pull my front end off to put the AC condenser in front of my rad.

Even though I am going to try to avoid autocrossing in my only family car from now on, technically this swap puts the 3 way out of H street class, but I would argue that it just puts it somewhat back in line with the cars that have been moved into H in the past few years. So if I enter it I will ask permission from the street group before running. 

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7 hours ago, TRDTurko said:

Major update!  I have completed my swap with a 2.5 now by swapping pretty much all the dressing from the 2.3 onto the 2.5 that came out of a ford fusion, and it runs great

Even though I am going to try to avoid autocrossing in my only family car from now on, technically this swap puts the 3 way out of H street class, but I would argue that it just puts it somewhat back in line with the cars that have been moved into H in the past few years. So if I enter it I will ask permission from the street group before running. 

Welcome to Street Mod Fwd. :P I honestly think that stock class may be pushing it. STF at the very least ;)

There's a difference of 15-25hp between the motors.

Id source a fusion intake personally and if there is any risk of it running lean in closed loop assuming your running 2.3 injectors, you could find a slightly larger (10-20cc over stock) matching impedance injector and swap it in.

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True about the 15-25hp difference in the motors but its the same motor which is in the newer 3s still in H. And lets look at the new class leader Mr Fiesta ST shall we... 197 hp, 202 lb-ft, curb weight of 2720 lbs. Curb weight of mine is around 100 lbs more with at least 25 less hp and torque with no brake torque vectoring voodoo. All in a car not optimized in any other way for the class (no upgraded sway bar or exhaust, noncompetitive tires, street alignment ect.) So I think I would be justified in staying in H streets, but that's just me lol

I am running the 2.5 injectors. there is some debate over which to use but in most cases the 2.5 injectors won out. I do have a fusion intake but the mazda throttle body does not bolt to it and the fusion one is not recognized by the mazda ecu. If I can find a mazda 2.5 manifold and TB that is the best option, but it would probably cost me another $300 or more. I may do that down the road but for now some RTV will have to do. 

 

Edited by TRDTurko

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1 hour ago, TRDTurko said:

True about the 15-25hp difference in the motors but its the same motor which is in the newer 3s still in H. And lets look at the new class leader Mr Fiesta ST shall we... 197 hp, 202 lb-ft, curb weight of 2720 lbs. Curb weight of mine is around 100 lbs more with at least 25 less hp and torque with no brake torque vectoring voodoo. All in a car not optimized in any other way for the class (no upgraded sway bar or exhaust, noncompetitive tires, street alignment ect.) So I think I would be justified in staying in H streets, but that's just me lol

I am running the 2.5 injectors. there is some debate over which to use but in most cases the 2.5 injectors won out. I do have a fusion intake but the mazda throttle body does not bolt to it and the fusion one is not recognized by the mazda ecu. If I can find a mazda 2.5 manifold and TB that is the best option, but it would probably cost me another $300 or more. I may do that down the road but for now some RTV will have to do. 

 

Yeah staying in stock is a pretty big stretch...but I think they have update/backdate rules that you could maybe follow, maybe that gives you the chances to argue your case?

From your other post it doesn't sound like you care about having a competitive car so just class your car correctly and come have some fun in modified group. I'm in SP and my car is hardly prepped compared to what is allowed so we can compete against each other in under prepped cars.

 

S.

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unfortunately the updating rule starts in SP. 

maybe this will help make my case a bit better...

power to weight ratio of some of the prominent cars in H (hp per pound)

Civic Si .069

500 Abarth .068

RSX Type S .071

Fiesta ST .072

08 Mazda 3 Sport .056 (156 hp 2780 lbs)

10 Mazda 3 Sport .055 (167 hp 3025 lbs)

Even if somehow the 2.3 Mazda ecu can learn the 2.5 good enough to produce the Fusion's 175 hp, it would still only make .063 hp per pound. I am thinking the 167 hp of the 2010 with the mazda ecu is more realistic so that would be .060. 

Again I will ask if I ever do run the car. If anything I think it would be justified to bump the car into GS (full of turbo cars) as a penalty. 

This argument is mostly for principle as I am running for fun this year but a lot of the fun is sucked out when you see your results way down in pax overall just because your car decided it liked the taste of its own bearings lol and the replacement engine is half the cost and a lot more reliable. A bump into SP just seems pretty extreme to me over 20hp max (some of which would be made up with an exhaust), that the car will just wheel spin away as it is notorious for. 

 

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Why not just run what you brung, in the appropriate class?

Nothing I liked better then running an automatic focus in fsp and still taking home a trophy. Hell there was a super fast dude running a corolla. A fast driver can overcome the wrong car. 

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15 hours ago, TRDTurko said:

unfortunately the updating rule starts in SP. 

maybe this will help make my case a bit better...

power to weight ratio of some of the prominent cars in H (hp per pound)

Civic Si .069

500 Abarth .068

RSX Type S .071

Fiesta ST .072

08 Mazda 3 Sport .056 (156 hp 2780 lbs)

10 Mazda 3 Sport .055 (167 hp 3025 lbs)

Even if somehow the 2.3 Mazda ecu can learn the 2.5 good enough to produce the Fusion's 175 hp, it would still only make .063 hp per pound. I am thinking the 167 hp of the 2010 with the mazda ecu is more realistic so that would be .060. 

Again I will ask if I ever do run the car. If anything I think it would be justified to bump the car into GS (full of turbo cars) as a penalty. 

This argument is mostly for principle as I am running for fun this year but a lot of the fun is sucked out when you see your results way down in pax overall just because your car decided it liked the taste of its own bearings lol and the replacement engine is half the cost and a lot more reliable. A bump into SP just seems pretty extreme to me over 20hp max (some of which would be made up with an exhaust), that the car will just wheel spin away as it is notorious for. 

 

I see where you are going and I understand what you are trying to say but I suspect that if you looked at every car in your class that you would find other cars that have similar deficits. I would also say that you are looking at just one small aspect instead of the bigger picture. What I mean is, you are looking at just HP to weight but what about torque curve and gearing? You are gaining 10% displacement which could mean extra grunt down low which might be more advantageous in autoslalom.

I sympathize with you on seeing your name down the order because of a crappy PAX. I felt the same way when I was running in SP last year and the only change I had done to my car was brake lines and front brake caliper guides (basically a hard plastic sleeve in the caliper that the pins slide through that I replaced with a brass sleeve). Is there a measurable difference from that change? Yes if you take a dial gauge you can see the caliper deflects several thousandths of an inch less under full brake pedal pressure. Could I feel any difference or did it change my brake modulation? No. Did it impact my times at autoslalom? No. But those mods aren't allowed in Street class so I moved. Sorry I am digressing. The point is, unless it is something truly minor like adding a side skirts, a fake hood scoop or things of that nature, I can't see making an exception. But that's me and I seem to have a thing for running an under prepped car for any class I am in.

One last thing, since you like running the numbers, you can always run the numbers after the event to see where you would have ended up if you were classed differently. I actually have an Excel spreadsheet that I have used to see how PAX affects times so I could compare a specific class to all the others.

 

Shawn

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Well not to be too obvious but of course there are cars with similar or worse deficits in H... H is the basement of pax ;) Most of the cars I referenced actually used to be in G but were bumped down to H, making almost every car that was already in H obsolete. There is still one guy somehow winning with a base Mini Cooper. (horrid ratio of .051 if I recall but gearing and amazing handling make up for it I guess). And yes I did think of torque and gearing but those are very hard things to compare. 

If I ever do end up running the 3 I will go with what the majority says and adjust pax for my self afterwards as you said if need be. 

This was actually a fun debate... I just hope I don't turn into one of those guys who argues just for argument's sake :P

 

on a related story, I once took the 3 to an event in Ft. Macleod Alberta and ran a Streets setup in the ST class as they did not have a street tire multiplier for their stock classes yet since most used R comps still. One guy was baffled as to why I was in ST when the car looked and sounded bone stock. Everyone in ST there had very obviously modded cars. I finished about mid pack in class because the car was only slightly prepped. I am sure though that I would have been at the back like Brendon and I were at the Gimli event if the car was at the zero prep level it is now. 

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This would set a precedent which would likely result in more people trying to do the same and making arguments about since X is in this class I shouldn't (or should) be here because of these 5 factors. Which will result in me put you in A-mod since you can't class your vehicle correctly :D

We are already generous with minor things and cosmetic type stuff like Shawn described earlier. An engine swap is significantly outside that.

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When I tried to class my car it was tough I had a cold air intake which bumped me to ST and since its a buick regal it fell into a catch all in ST, now I could have argued or removed the cold air intake but instead I added a few other items that were legal in the class and hopefully once I get some more experience I'll be competitive in the class. I get were your coming from but my cold air intake probably adds the same or less horse power as your engine change, maybe make a couple appropriate changes for the class (within whatever the budget is) and just keep having fun regardless!

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14 hours ago, Nhil said:

This would set a precedent which would likely result in more people trying to do the same and making arguments about since X is in this class I shouldn't (or should) be here because of these 5 factors. Which will result in me put you in A-mod since you can't class your vehicle correctly :D

We are already generous with minor things and cosmetic type stuff like Shawn described earlier. An engine swap is significantly outside that.

good point, that could get out of hand lol

10 hours ago, rjames said:

When I tried to class my car it was tough I had a cold air intake which bumped me to ST and since its a buick regal it fell into a catch all in ST, now I could have argued or removed the cold air intake but instead I added a few other items that were legal in the class and hopefully once I get some more experience I'll be competitive in the class. I get were your coming from but my cold air intake probably adds the same or less horse power as your engine change, maybe make a couple appropriate changes for the class (within whatever the budget is) and just keep having fun regardless!

this car is supposed to be my family car not my race car so doing mods to it would take money away from the car that is waiting for funds for an engine which is supposed to be my actual race car. Plus I plan on trading it in to get a bigger family car in the next few years so mods would be a big waste of money that way. 

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